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To: GOPcapitalist
There were two people present. One died a week later. The other wrote up his recollections of the meeting in detail. No credible reason whatsoever exists as to why those details would be wrong. Live with it.

It's inconsistent with what President Lincoln said before. There is no reason to give it credence.

"Congress may apprpriate money and otherwise provide, for colonizing free colored persons, with their own consent, at any place or places without the United States."

-- A. Lincoln, 12/01/62

You can't show in the record that Lincoln's position ever went beyond that.

What the record shows, in fact, is that he dropped this position entirely and supported full rights for blacks.

Walt

968 posted on 10/10/2003 9:51:39 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa; GOPcapitalist
[Wlat] It's inconsistent with what President Lincoln said before. There is no reason to give it credence.

Benjamin Butler, Autobiography and Personal Reminiscences of Major-General Benjamin F. Butler (Boston: 1892), pp. 903-908.; Quoted in: Charles H. Wesley, "Lincoln's Plan for Colonizing the Emancipated Negroes," The Journal of Negro History, Vol. IV, No. 1 (January 1919), p. 20.; Earnest S. Cox, Lincoln's Negro Policy (Torrance, Calif.: 1968), pp. 62-64.; Paul J. Scheips, "Lincoln and the Chiriqui Colonization Project," The Journal of Negro History, Vol. 37, No. 4 (October 1952), pp. 448-449. In the view of historian H. Belz, the essence of what Butler reports that Lincoln said to him here is "in accord with views ... [he] expressed elsewhere concerning reconstruction." See: Herman Belz, Reconstructing the Union: Theory and Policy During the Civil War (Ithaca: 1969), pp. 282-283. Cited in: N. Weyl and W. Marina, American Statesmen on Slavery and the Negro (1971), p. 233 (n. 44).

What Butler said has been corroborated and authenticated by multiple reputable historians.

Scores of historians have spent countless hours trying to discredit Butler and his story. but since it is impossible to prove a nagative, and since, as other historians have pointed out, Butler's account is "full and circumstantial" and there was no reason for him to lie, these efforts have proved fruitless. More to the point, Lincoln said the same thing about colonization and his fear of Black violence to others (see page 615). Based on these and other factors, some scholars, Ludwell H. Johnson (68) and Herman Belz (282) among them, have concluded that there is no reason to doubt the butler account. "If Butler's recollection is substantially correct, as it appears to be," George Frederickson said, "then one can only conclude that Lincoln continued to his dying day to deny the possibility of racial harmony and equality in the United States and persisted in regarding colonization as the only real alternative to perpetual race conflict" (57)

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 167

Citations:

Belz, Herman, Reconstructing the Union. Ithaca, 1969.

Frederickson, George M. "A Man but Not a Brother: Abraham Lincoln and Racial Equality," Journal of Southern History 41 (February 1975): 39-58.

Johnson, Ludwell. "Lincoln and Equal Rights: The Authenticity of the Wadsworth Letter," Journal of Southern History 32 (Sept. 1966): 83-7


Congressman Julian, who conferred with Lincoln often as a member of the powerful Joint Committee on the Conduct ofthe War, used almost the same words, saying that when Lincoln "very reluctantly issued his preliminary proclamation ... he wished it distinctly understood that the deportation of the slaves was, in his min, inseparably connected with the policy" (RR 61)

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 510

Citation:

Allen T. Rice, Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time. New York, 1888.


Looking back later, Rev. Mitchell said, according to an interview published in the St. Louis Daily Globe-Democrat, August 26, 1894, that he asked a Presbyterian pastor to recommend a local man who could help him organize Illinois for the American Colonization Society. The pastor recommended Lincoln, who didn't, Mitchell said, look like much but who had a firm grasp of the politics of colonization and what Mitchell had done in Indiana. Lincoln was thirty-four years old when he met Mitchell. What did he believe? He "earnestly believed in and advocated colonization as a means of solving 'the race problem,'" Mitchell said. The two men became friends or at least associates, and Lincoln later names Mitchell commissioner of [Black] emigration in the Lincoln administration.

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 226


This was not an ad hoc political tactic or a hastily devised response to the pressure of events -- this was, Lincoln's emigration aide Rev. James Mitchell told the St. Louis Daily Globe-Democrat on August 16, 1894, the foundation of Lincoln's private and public policy. It was "his honest conviction that it was better for both races to separate. This was the central point of his policy, around which hung all his private views, and as far as others would let him, his public acts" [Italics added] Lincoln was "fully convinced" that "the republic was already dangerously encumbered with African blood that would not legally mix with American [sic] . . . . He regarded a mixed race as eminently anti-republican, because of the heterogeneous character it gives the population where it exists, and for similar reasons he did not favor the annexation of tropical lands encumbers with mixed races ...."

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 384


Lincoln's emigration aide, the Rev. James Mitchell, said the Proclamation "did not change Mr. Lincoln's policy of colonization, nor was it so intended." On August 18, 1863, seven months after the signing of the Proclamation and three months before the Gettysburg Address, Mitchell said he asked Lincoln if the "might say that colonization was still the policy of the Administration." Lincoln replied twice, he said, that "I have never thought so much on any subject and arrived at a conclusion so definite as I have in this case, and in after years found myself wrong." Lincoln added that "it would have been much better to separate the races than to have such scenes as those in New York [during the Draft Riots] the other day, where Negroes were hanged to lamp posts."

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 554


What the evil political pimp Lincoln said in public cannot be reconciled with what he did when not in public. This is very much like your other hero, William Jefferson Blyth Clinton.

The evil political pimp Lincoln appointed and supported the sick, perverted, twisted James Mitchell for years as the Agent of [Black] Emigration, i.e., Commissioner of Ethnic Cleansing.

969 posted on 10/10/2003 10:34:37 PM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
It's inconsistent with what President Lincoln said before.

No it's not. Butler's account is very similar to the plan proposed by Lincoln's colonization agent James Mitchell a few years earlier (interestingly enough Mitchell advised on the cover letter to it that Lincoln put off his large scale plan until the war was over and funds were available for it). Lincoln evidently must have tolerated that proposal because he never fired Mitchell and in fact fought to keep Mitchell on the job and continuing his colonization schemes after the Sec. of Interion requested to fire him.

973 posted on 10/10/2003 10:54:32 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa; GOPcapitalist
[Walt 968] What the record shows, in fact, is that he dropped this position entirely and supported full rights for blacks.

Lincoln never supported full rights for Blacks. It is what he DID that counts. What he DID was to help create, and then support, a Louisiana constitution that did not give such rights to Blacks.

LINCOLN'S LAST CABINET MEETING

Excerpted from:
Lincoln and Johnson
Their Plan of Reconstruction and the Resumption of National Authority
First Paper
by Gideon Welles
Galaxy Magazine, April 1872, pp. 526

He thought it providential that this great rebellion was crushed just as Congress had adjourned, and there were none of the disturbing elements of that body to hinder and embarrass us. If we were wise and discreet, we should reanimate the States and get their governments in successful operation, with order prevailing the the Union reestablished, before Congress came together in December. This he thought important. We could do better; accomplish more without than with them.

* * *

There was too much of a desire on the part of some of our very good friends to be masters, to interfere with and dictate to those States, to treat the people not as fellow citizens; there was too little respect for their rights. He did not sympathize in these feelings. Louisiana, he said, had framed and presented one of the best constitutions that had ever been formed. He wished they had permitted negroes who had property, or could read, to vote; but this was a question which they must decide for themselves.

Yet some, a very few of our friends, were not willing to let the people of the States determine these questions, but, in violation of first and fundamental principles, would exercise arbitrary power over them. These humanitarians break down all State rights and constitutional rights. Had the Louisianians inserted the negro in their Constitution, and had that instrument been in all other respects the same, Mr. Sumner, he said, would never have excepted to that Constitution. The delegation would have been admitted, and the State all right.

977 posted on 10/11/2003 12:44:36 AM PDT by nolu chan
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