Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: nolu chan
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. "Eleven."

You're like a broken record. Your posts on this thread are a house of cards. It's going to crumble under its own weight of mistruths, misquotes, and misrepresentations.

Let's take your "13 sovereign, independent states." The Treaty of Paris was finalized in 1783, about two years after the States had entered in to "perpetual union" under the Articles of Confederation. The "United States" had been recognized diplomatically by several European powers. Tell me, in 1784 who was Georgia's ambassador to Spain? Or New Jersey's Foreign Minister to France? Who was France's Minister to New jersey? Who commanded Maryland's national navy? Let me save you the time - there weren't any.

These "13 sovereign, independent states" had already formed a confederal government, under the Articles. They had willingly entered into an agreement in which they ceded a degree of sovereignty ("self-rule") to the national government (the Congress) for the purpose of mutual defence, the conduct of foreign affairs, the operation of a national postal service, etc. These states were not truly independent, they were interdependent. The Articles created more than a "league of friendship."

In the context of the American revolution and its aftermath, it is not surprising that the States would act to create a weak national government. But they did not propagate thirteen national governments after 1783.

1,504 posted on 10/27/2003 1:33:00 AM PST by capitan_refugio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1498 | View Replies ]


To: capitan_refugio
[CapnR] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. "Eleven."

You may divert, spew, and blather all you want. 11 DOES NOT EQUAL 13.

THE ELEVEN UNITED STATES

STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AND PROVIDENCE PLANTATIONS,
In General Assembly, September Session, 1789.

To the President, the Senate, and the House of Representatives of the eleven United States of America in Congress assembled:

We are induced to hope that we shall not be altogether considered as foreigners having no particular affinity or connection with the United States; but that trade and commerce, upon which the properity of this State much depends, will be preservved as free and open between this State and the United States, as our different situations at present can possibly admit....

We feel ourselves attached by the strongest ties of friendship, kindred, and interest, to our sister States; and we can not, without the greatest reluctance, look to any other quarter for those advantages of commercial intercourse which we conceive to be more natural and reciprocal between them and us.

I am, at the request and in behalf of the General Assembly, your most obedient, humble servant.

(Signed) John Collins, Governor.

His Excellency, the President of the United States.

[American State Papers, Vol I, Miscellaneous.]

SOURCE: The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government, Jefferson Davis, Vol I, pp. 112-3.

1,508 posted on 10/27/2003 3:28:46 AM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1504 | View Replies ]

To: capitan_refugio
[CapnR directly contradicting the Supreme Court] The Articles created more than a "league of friendship."

The Supreme Court on the status of the states before the Constitution: As preliminary to the very able discussions of the constitution, which we have heard from the bar, and as having some influence on its construction, reference has been made to the political situation of these States, anterior to its formation. It has been said, that they were sovereign, were completely independent, and were connected with each other only by a league. This is true.

SOURCE: U.S. Supreme Court, GIBBONS v. OGDEN , 22 U.S. 1 (1824)

Opinion by Chief Justice John Marshall

[CapnR to Gianni #1426]Salmon Chase's majority opinion in the Texas vs White case carries the weight of law. The typical "neo-confederate" argument that secession is a right implied by the 10th Amendment, is trumped by Chase's ruling.

Clearly, by CapnR standards, Chief Justice Marshall's decision in Gibbons v. Ogden carries the weight of law, and your unsupported argument to the contrary is trumped by Marshall's ruling.

[CapnR to Gianni #1426]Chief Justice Chase did not alter one word of the Constitution. He ruled that the original intent of the framers was that the Union was paramount and that unilateral secession was, is, and will remain illegal.

Clearly, by CapnR standards, Chief Justice Marshall's ruling decided what was and what is and will remain the final word.

1,509 posted on 10/27/2003 3:51:55 AM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1504 | View Replies ]

To: capitan_refugio
But they did not propagate thirteen national governments after 1783.

They did not propagate any national government back then at all. By the Constitution they created a Federal government.

1,535 posted on 10/27/2003 12:00:08 PM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1504 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson