California recall: Does one man hold key? [McClintock]

Christian Science Monitor ^ | 9-25 | Christian Science Monitor

[lainde]

I really don't understand your reference to Ayn Rand...An atheist who had no problems with adultery as long as your partner was kept informed. Certainly she had unwavering principles, but not necessarily conservative principles.

[Flashman_at_the_charge]

68, why the insult? A vote for McClintock is a vote for McClintock. If you would hold your nose and vote for a candidate who would normally be unacceptable then how the hell do you think that the GOP would know or even care about this? The only way any party knows it is losing support is through lack of votes, not at the polls, since why would they care how you felt about the issues, just as long as voted for the party.

Arnold, if successful, will redefine what it is to be electable in California. Those who would move the party to the left, for no other gain than for power, would be able to point to California and say how the party must move further left to win more power.

Arnold will do nothing to address the issue of illegals and without this California is finished.

[EternalVigilance]

Ronald Reagan:

"So I tell you there are a great many God-fearing, dedicated, noble men and women in public life, present company included. And yes, we need your help to keep us ever mindful of the ideas and the principles that brought us into the public arena in the first place. The basis of those ideals and principles is a commitment to freedom and personal liberty that, itself, is grounded in the much deeper realization that freedom prospers only where the blessings of God are avidly sought and humbly accepted.

The American experiment in democracy rests on this insight. Its discovery was the great triumph of our Founding Fathers, voiced by William Penn when he said: "If we will not be governed by God, we must be governed by tyrants." Explaining the inalienable rights of men, Jefferson said, "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time." And it was George Washington who said that "of all the disposition and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supporters."

And finally, that shrewdest of all observers of American democracy, Alexis de Tocqueville, put it eloquently after he had gone on a search for the secret of America's greatness and genius - and he said: "Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the greatness and the genius of America . . . America is good. And if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."

Well, I'm pleased to be here today with you who are keeping America great by keeping her good. Only through your work and prayers and those of millions of others cans we hope to survive this perilous century and keep alive this experiment in liberty, this last, best hope of man."

[EternalVigilance]

More Ronald Reagan:

"Abortion on demand now takes the lives of up to one and a half million unborn children a year. Human life legislation ending this tragedy will someday pass the Congress, and you and I must never rest until it does. Unless and until it can be proven that the unborn child is not a living entity, then its right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness must be protected."

[EternalVigilance]

There is no virtue at all in being a stubborn ass.

Yes there is. Stubborn asses made this country great.

[68 grunt]

You are very wrong. What is the insult? That you may prefer the democrat? Once again, I like Arnold! So do most of the people. Most of the people do not like McX.

[Tamzee]

Ahhhh, but Reagan wasn't pro-life when first elected as Governor...

It must have been the rest of his platform that appealed so much to voters.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

You risk by this policy turning conservatism, as you define it, into a powerless political sect.

Wrong, because it in itself is the only effective way to govern out of a crisis like these, whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant.

The irony is that your words are most applicable...to your position.

[EternalVigilance]

Well, then your candidate is stuck in the Sixties...way behind the times.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

or something.

[Texasforever]

or something.

Nude photos maybe?

[Flashman_at_the_charge]

Read your last post.

[Tamzee]

My point is that there is much substance in the GOP platform that contrasts directly with the DNC platform. Pro-life is an important issue, but one of many. There were solid Republicans before abortion ever became a huge political issue.

I'm just saying that it is possible to believe deeply in other aspects of the GOP platform even if someone is still "misguided" or "un-Christian" enough to be pro-choice.

Has anyone from our side thought about contacting Arnold if he gets into office and show him how terrible abortion really is? I doubt he's ever been exposed to the material and pictures that really drive it home.

[buwaya]

You are joking ?

A cultural change will come when we conservatives develop the will to actually put in the effort to change peoples hearts. It will take guts, enterprise, and money - as much again as we pay in taxes, to promote religion and proper education. It will take a generation at least.

Your conservative wave is a fantasy that will not happen. The true one will take sacrifice, hard work, patience and humility.

[buwaya]

But you cannot govern if you do not win.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

But you cannot govern if you do not win.

and you cannot win again if you govern very very badly.

[buwaya]

And this is where politics becomes useless. This devotion that Reagan valued will not be won in elections, and regretting its lack in politicians is pointless.

Where are the tithes, the legacies, the contributions to expand, for instance, private religious schools ? Where are the vocations to the priesthood, to service, to ministry ? Reclaiming California will take sacrifice, personal sacrifice. No election will give you this.

[EternalVigilance]

Has anyone from our side thought about contacting Arnold if he gets into office and show him how terrible abortion really is? I doubt he's ever been exposed to the material and pictures that really drive it home.

You don't just 'contact' people like Arnold. They are surrounded by a phalanx of security and staff all of the time.

Having to try and change a politician's mind about such a fundamental issue after he is already in office is almost completely hopeless.

Appreciate your thoughts, though.

[buwaya]

So did opportunists, fanatics, schmoozers, wanderers, weirdos, saints, and a bunch of very shrewd politicians that made among themselves a series of very unstubborn compromises.

The system of checks and balances was not built by stubborn asses.

Louis XVI's France was full of stubborn asses.

[Tamzee]

I meant officially... as constituents, a pro-life right-wing interest group.

Just thought it would be worth the effort to try if he got into office.