Legalization of drugs urged: Ex-police officer says 33-year-old 'war' is a failure

The Arizona Republic ^ | Sept. 21, 2003 | Judi Villa

[MrLeRoy]

It sounds radical. Even more so when it comes from a former narcotics cop.

But Jack Cole, a retired detective lieutenant with the New Jersey State Police, says the nation's 33-year "war on drugs" is a failure and the only way to really save lives, reduce addiction and lessen crime is to make drugs legal.

[TopQuark]

I'd say that the widespread loss of privacy and growing police state to fight a drug war that has done nothing but create vast criminal empires

The attribution is wrong: the "empires" are created by the economies of scale in the drug distribution, given especially its international character.

The loss of privacy and "police state" are not directly attributable to the drug war. Rather, it's an onslaught of socialism --- not as gov't actions but as changes in the basic values of our people, who move from religion to socialist in their fundamental outlook.

[Orangedog]

And the war on drug would be one is a week (OK, make it a month). I completely agree: the war on drugs seems to be stalled because we are not fighting.

We conduct the war on drugs in the same way as that in Vietnam: we have the troops deployed but we are not fighting. And the same forces declare the war "lost" and "quagmire."

Enjoy the police state. The peoblem with declaring war on your own people is that it opens the door to declare war on other malcontents like gun owners, cigarette smokers and other people who are small enough in numbers to be politically insignificant. If you're not free enough to ruin your own life, if you so choose, how free are you to live it?

[Orangedog]

The loss of privacy and "police state" are not directly attributable to the drug war. Rather, it's an onslaught of socialism --- not as gov't actions but as changes in the basic values of our people, who move from religion to socialist in their fundamental outlook.

So it's socialism and not the drug war that has the IRS auditing people who make cash transactions over $10,000? The drug war has nothing to do with "no-knock" warrants where "the good guys" wear black ski masks, smash in peoples front doors and charge in with automatic weapons screaming "Police, search warrant!" because someone looking for a lighter sentence picked a name out of the air? If you listen carefully you can hear the Founders spinning in their graves.

[TopQuark]

Enjoy the police state. Does not follow from anyting I said.

The peoblem with declaring war on your own people

No one declared war on people: only on the drugs.

Again, please try to keep the thoughts straight.

[dennisw]

Believe it or not, there was actually a time when one could go to the local drug store and walk out with all the cheap cocaine and morphine you could carry and somehow the republic survived and thrived.

BFD Jack. I've known that for years. It ceased to "blow my mind" years ago but for libertarians is a holy grail. The golden age of America when you could buy cocaine and morphine at the drug store and Coca Cola had cocaine in it.

To repeat: Americans lack the discipline these days to deal with across the board drug legalization. Many more will fall prey to them.

Now why don't you move onto the next libertarian talking point? That those who get addicted and die deserve to die and it culls out the weak specimens. So if 10 times more Americans burn out or die when hard drugs are legalized, it's their tough luck

[philetus]

Alcohol


What are the street names/slang terms for it?
Booze

What is it?
Alcohol is the most commonly used and widely abused psychoactive DRUG in the country.

What does it look like?
Alcohol is used in liquid form.

How is it used?
Alcohol is drunk. Types include beer, wine, and liquor.

What are its short-term effects?
When a person drinks alcohol, the alcohol is absorbed by the stomach, enters the bloodstream, and goes to all the tissues. The effects of alcohol are dependent on a variety of factors, including a person's size, weight, age, and sex, as well as the amount of food and alcohol consumed. The disinhibiting effect of alcohol is one of the main reasons it is used in so many social situations. Other effects of moderate alcohol intake include dizziness and talkativeness; the immediate effects of a larger amount of alcohol include slurred speech, disturbed sleep, nausea, and vomiting. Alcohol, even at low doses, significantly impairs the judgment and coordination required to drive a car safely. Low to moderate doses of alcohol can also increase the incidence of a variety of aggressive acts, including domestic violence and child abuse. Hangovers are another possible effect after large amounts of alcohol are consumed; a hangover consists of headache, nausea, thirst, dizziness, and fatigue.

What are its long-term effects?
Prolonged, heavy use of alcohol can lead to addiction (alcoholism). Sudden cessation of long term, extensive alcohol intake is likely to produce withdrawal symptoms, including severe anxiety, tremors, hallucinations and convulsions. Long-term effects of consuming large quantities of alcohol, especially when combined with poor nutrition, can lead to permanent damage to vital organs such as the brain and liver. In addition, mothers who drink alcohol during pregnancy may give birth to infants with fetal alcohol syndrome. These infants may suffer from mental retardation and other irreversible physical abnormalities. In addition, research indicates that children of alcoholic parents are at greater risk than other children of becoming alcoholics.

What is its federal classification?
Alcohol is a legal purchased product for adults.

[Orangedog]

Oh I'm keeping the thoughts straight, I'm just not allowing you to set the terms and parameters of the debate.

[Orangedog]

To repeat: Americans lack the discipline these days to deal with across the board drug legalization. Many more will fall prey to them.

Why, thank you for being here to save us all from ourselves. We will all be much happier in Nurf-World, where all the sharp edges have been rounded off for our safety.

Now why don't you move onto the next libertarian talking point?...

Now now, there's no need for name calling.

...That those who get addicted and die deserve to die and it culls out the weak specimens. So if 10 times more Americans burn out or die when hard drugs are legalized, it's their tough luck.

Yes, it's much more humane for the state to imprison them and confiscate their property, then kill them...silly me.

[Servant of the 9]

LEAP is nothing but a bunch of druggie liberdopian hippies.

Yep, just worthless scumbags like the ones who worked to repeal prohibition.

SO9

[dennisw]

To repeat: Americans lack the discipline these days to deal with across the board drug legalization. Many more will fall prey to them.

Why, thank you for being here to save us all from ourselves. We will all be much happier in Nurf-World, where all the sharp edges have been rounded off for our safety.

I don't believe in the nanny state but legalizing drugs is so foolish. You will just a get a new set of problems that are even worse.

[xrp]

I didn't think you had supporting references.

[xrp]

Sorry, I was referring to FR anti-WoD posters, such as myself, MrLeroy and the rest of the freedom loving crowd.

[MrLeRoy]

the governed had best understand that they are granting government the same powers they themselves have by right as God's creatures first

Yes, the right of SELF-governance. I have no power over you, so I cannot authorize government to exert power over you, nor you me.

we live under laws that were written by the collective will of the governed

The proper scope of those laws is limited to the same authority the governed themselves have by right as God's creatures---and that God-given authority does NOT include a general authority to "parent" other adults, but only the authority to prevent them violating the rights of others.

[robertpaulsen]

"Making marijuana and cocaine legal would pretty much wipe out that particular industry for the bad guys."

I agree. That particular industry.

Now, isn't it likely that the bad guys would then simply focus on the remaining illegal drugs? Or do you want us to believe that they would just quit and get real jobs?

Seriously, what's the point in legalizing just marijuana and cocaine? What, exactly, is to be gained?

[MrLeRoy]

the stable state for this culture in terms of drugs is non-use, amd return to it is realistic.

As I pointed out to you in post #62 (to which you have not replied), "70 million Americans have used marijuana; that toothpaste is out of the tube." Return to non-use of marijuana is not realistic, as the ongoing failure of the War On Marijuana demonstrates.

[MrLeRoy]

Americans lack the discipline these days to deal with across the board drug legalization. Many more will fall prey to them.

Provide evidence for your nanny-statist claim.

[MrLeRoy]

Now, isn't it likely that the bad guys would then simply focus on the remaining illegal drugs?

They can't create demand, so many of them would go out of the drug business.

[pageonetoo]

when was the last time you watched the legislative process, presided over by LAWYERS intent on keeping a job!
The WOD is as phony as the rules the EPA applies for the snail darter!