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To: 30-06 Springfield
Israel should wait until they see how our Strykers do in Iraq beginning in October. Our's are deploying without the Mobile Gun System (MGS) promised by General Dynamics the first time in 1980. That one still has not arrived so I don't understand why anyone would be surprised that they have not performed this time. Armaments seem to be a problem at General Dynamics.

The Isralies are paying $1.5 million of our money for each vehicle and we're paying $2.8 million for each vehicle with our money. I don't get that unless they got a discount for buying sight unseen. That's sort of like buying a pig-in-a-poke.
14 posted on 09/06/2003 2:25:36 AM PDT by lshoultz
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To: lshoultz
Israel should wait until they see how our Strykers do in Iraq beginning in October. Our's are deploying without the Mobile Gun System (MGS) promised by General Dynamics the first time in 1980. That one still has not arrived so I don't understand why anyone would be surprised that they have not performed this time. Armaments seem to be a problem at General Dynamics.

The Isralies are paying $1.5 million of our money for each vehicle and we're paying $2.8 million for each vehicle with our money. I don't get that unless they got a discount for buying sight unseen. That's sort of like buying a pig-in-a-poke.

I expect the Israelis are NOT going with the troublesome Norwegian-developed .50 caliber remote gun system, since the Israeli Urmann firm makes some swell accessory turrets and commander's cupolas for other Israeli vehicles, including the M113 and Merchavim. I bet too that the Israelis mount something a heckuva lot more impressive than a .50 aboard. I have my own suspicion about what the Israelis will be doing with their Strykers, but I'll wait for confirmation from some of my Israeli pals before saying anything.

The good news is that it's most unlikely that the MGS version will be needed by US forces for response to any little surprises by Iraqi Republican Guard tank forces, a particular concern just a few months ago. And rightfully so, since even the Iraqi forces with older T55 tanks faced by Marines at Kijafi during Operation Desert Shield in 1991 stopped the Marines wheeled LAV's cold. Even with TOW aboard, a wheeled Marine LAV unit was no match for an enemy tank battalion, and the Marines knew it.

But of even more use for what we're now facing would be a self-propelled 155mm gun, as has been fitted on a stretched M113 MTLV chassis. With the cancellation of the Crusader 155 SP, which wouldn't have been particularly maneuverable in city streets anyway, and with the withdrawal of the CEV and its 185mm demolition gun from the castlebuilders, a direct-fire artillery piece of large caliber is needed for making new entrances archetects never planned on, leveling strongpoints and providing REALLY effective countersniper fire. Even the 120mm gun of the Abrams, meant for antitank penetration and long-range accuracy rather than massive HE blast effect isn't suitable, and the shortened 105mm round to be used in the MGS is almost certainly no better. And early tests of the MGS showed that if they tried to fire it to the left or right flank, the recoil tipped the high center-of-gravity wheeled chassis over to the other side. Oops.

Patton's Third Army found the 155 SP gun to be the single most effective weapon available when European cities couldn't be bypassed, and the lessons they learned the hard way shouldn't be forgotten. Missiles can do some of the job, but that's an awfully expensive way to do it, as we learned with the M551 Sheridan and M60A3 tanks.

But a Sheridan turret with 152mm gun-launcher on a Stryker chassis would certainly be interesting. And if the Stryker couldn't handle it, a stretched M113 MTLV could....


24 posted on 09/06/2003 10:24:41 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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