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To: hoosierham
Would you deny that giving food to a starving person is doing good ?

Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

The problem here is that you are trying to reason away Isaiah 64:6 rather than trying to understand it. This process of reading new meaning into a passage is called eisegesis. Nothing good comes out of denying Scripture because you don't understand it, or it doesn't meet the world's standards. In the question that you have posed here, you are using the world's standard for "good" and judging God by it. When Isaiah said that all of our works are as filthy rags he meant even giving food to a starving person. The reason why this seems strange to you is that you confuse human works with spiritual righteousness. Everything you do, outside of the will of God is unrighteous. Read the Sermon on the Mount where several of the Ten Commandments are explained in terms of motivation. The point being, while unregenerated, why are you feeding the starving person? Certainly not to glorify God. Human altruism is superficial in that there is always a personal motive in doing so. Why did you feed the starving? Because of some personal guilt? For the praise of others? To get the person to quit pestering you?. The regenerated man of God feeds the starving, perhaps, because he is doing so out of obedience to God, so that the Father is glorified in the sanctified works of man.

The Anthropocentrism of Free Will Theory (the American Religion) that glorifies man by saying "I chose Christ of my free will" also believes that his own standard of judging right from wrong prevails. This is the heresy of the WWJD movement, in that folks pretend God's Will is fashioned from man's subjective idea of what is right and good. This is why legalism prevails so often in the American Religion, because of its acute philosophy of man centered thinking, that if I feel that it is good, then God must be pleased by it. In truth, any work done outside of the Will of God, performed for any other reason that to directly glorify Christ, is an evil work because the motivation is to glorify man (yourself in this case) rather than to glorify God. (John 3:30)

So lets review your questions in light of this truth.

Do you think Jesus was telling us that no one can do good when he told of the Good Samaritan ?

What is the context of this parable? The whole parable ended with a rhetorical question to answer the lawyer's question of "Who is my neighbor?" The question was changed by Christ to be "Who do you think was a neighbor?" with the ultimate answer being "He who showed mercy.". But to read that and yet miss the opening question "What is the Law?" will lead you to think that the contextless work of attending the needs of a neighbor is what is righteous. The context is "Love the Lord With All of Your Heart, Soul, Strength and Mind, and your neighbor as yourself." (which is the Ten Commandments summed up) The latter does you no good if you ignore the primary. And if you are following the former, then the loving your neighbor as yourself is conducted under the influence of glorifying God.

Do you really believe God created man unable to do good so that He would have a reason to sacrifice His Son on the cross ?

That is the debate between infralapsarians and supralapsarians. I think that the latter still has underestimated God's Purpose. Your question is loaded, and I am not certain if that was intentional, or more relevatory of your disposition. I do not believe that God was surprised by A&E's rebellion, and in fact I believe that they were in the garden no more than one day.

Look at it this way - in the form of stacking dominoes so that they fall into one another. Infralapsarians tend to treat God's Soveriegnty as quickly setting up dominoes in place as soon as the first Adam domino fell. Supralapsarians have God setting up the dominoes before Adam fell. I see God not only setting up the dominos like the supra's but also placing many dominos ahead of the Adamic one.

I say again, God created man(and woman) with free choice ;and that means each may choose good or evil, may choose to obey or disobey,and will be judged on his own choices.

You must admit that at this point in the game, the opinion is rather academic. The relevant question is does man today born with a free will. Clearly the answer is no. The natural man's will is born a slave to sin and his spirit is dead. He cannot serve two masters. (Matt 6:24)

Would you also care to discuss the problems caused by the Western tradition of stating the commandment "thou shall not kill" when killing in self-and national defense is ordered by God elsewhere ? I think much anguish might have been avoided were the commandment stated as "thou shall not murder", which is consistent with the rest of the Bible.

Oh now you are going to be nice and toss a softball :)

Thanks to language changes and people rendering 1611 English in twentieth century definitions, there will be people who tout that line. (With the popularity of the NIV, this should eventually do away) Actually you don't need to be a Hebrew scholar to interpret that one for those who are against citizens packing heat for self-defense.

Matt 5:21-22 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder,' and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

There you have Jesus Christ's commentary on Exodus 20:13. "Thou shall not kill/murder", is explained as murder without cause. Furthermore, striking a brother without cause, even name-calling a brother without cause also falls under the "Thou shall not kill/murder" command. It doesn't take a lawyer to see that killing in self-defense is "cause" and therefore permissable. Actually, an argument can be made here that all forms of resistance with cause is justifiable, so the choice of a lethal weapon rather than a can of mace or pepper spray is according to the personal tastes of one dispensing the deterance.

224 posted on 09/01/2003 4:42:09 AM PDT by Dr Warmoose
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To: Dr Warmoose
I also have a problem with the belief that the sole purpose of man is to be a cheering section for the Almighty ; it seems rather a lot of trouble for Him to go to.i.e. the idea of numberless ranks of angels and righteous humans strumming harps and singing hosannas, seems pretty boring for a God who created a universe full of mysteries .

I feel sure He has some higher purpose not to be revealed just yet.

And I will have to risk using what brain-power He chose to give me, looking for consistency and reason in the Bible, keeping in mind just how many princes of the world have used the spiritual hunger of their subjects to mislead and enslave them.

I just cannot see the point of a God who sets up the dominoes to fall only in a certain way. If mankind is only dominoes(a plaything)then your idea of God seems little improved from the myths of Odin,Zeus,etc. And if mankind has no choice,no free will, then how can he be condemned for following the script? My God is more than a puppeteer , and I am more than a marionette ;else it is all worthless.

236 posted on 09/01/2003 6:53:13 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: Dr Warmoose
The natural man's will is born a slave to sin and his spirit is dead. He cannot serve two masters.

Good post, we agree on this.

"...does (Is a) man today born with a free will(?). Clearly the answer is no. "

Man is not first born regenerated in spirit, but has a range of choices within his sinful nature, all degenerate, until he receives common grace from the Father in His call by understanding the Gospel message, inbreathing it, and then man may choose in free will whether or not to believe in Him and accept Christ with faith. (Followed by the Holy Spirit making that faith effective, efficacious grace, for salvation, ...there is nothing man can do, alone by himself, to effect salvation.)

247 posted on 09/02/2003 3:35:58 AM PDT by Cvengr (0:^))
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