Free trade's victims turning against Bush, GOP

The Herald Sun ^ | August 25, 2003 | associated press

[DannyTN]

"This proposition is brilliant! "

No I think it could worsen the situation. Many times the companies really are outsourcing to foreign firms as opposed to simply relocating their own operations elsewhere.

This proposal could cause CEO's to want to outsource their lowest paid employees as a way of raising their average wage. And if they are going to outsource the jobs anyway, why not go foreign.

[dogbyte12]

Much of Wall Street is emotionality though. I get completely baffled when a company is expected to earn 25 cents profit for the quarter, but it ends up earning say 22 cents a share in profit, and the company's stock drops 25% in one day. What is the logic in that?

A company, for one quarter, generated 88 million in profit. We expected it to be 100 million this quarter. Let's devalue the company by a quarter. There is no logic there. It's emotionality.

Even though it was a dumb Hollywood movie, I loved the scene in Trading Places, where Eddie Murphy told the head honcho to hold off buying pork belly futures, because people were desperate, it was christmas, and they would start selling for lower, because they wanted extra money to buy their kids GI joes with the kung fu grips, and a nice present for their wife so they would have sex.

Sometimes, it really is that simple. Wall Street has turned into the lottery and gambling for many people. Many people who would have played the horses, or bet the Knicks are betting Eli Lilly instead. The same kind of pathology often applies. I would bet that the majority of day traders bet on sports as well.

[scottlang]

One more thing, the "suck it up and take it like a man attitude" of some who post here will get the votes of the independents who feel threatened by the lacklusted economy and job situation. These people are the one who decide elections.

[harpseal]

When you have a point other than your metaphysical ideals let me know. I prefer reality and sound mathematics.

[harpseal]

Well, doc, one thing I could do is be the guy who gets it to you. It doesn't magically appear just because you want it.

Goes against Free trade by having an American do the work.

The last half of your response is untilligable to anyone but you as it relates to the question.

[harpseal]

One more thing, the "suck it up and take it like a man attitude" of some who post here will get the votes of the independents who feel threatened by the lacklusted economy and job situation.You forgot the obvious sarcasm tag.

These people are the one who decide elections.

The Free trade advocates don't care about that they want their political correctness from the right. Yet the allegations of Communist or Nazi flow freely from them. Now as to "Free Traitor" many of them complain about that term and many of them egg people on to use it. Are you noticing similarities in methodology to some other group or groups.

[PigRigger]

"I'll get your money the old fashioned way thanks, by offering more value for it."

I undestand what you are saying; but for the most part we are not talking quality or being able to provide more value. Plain and simple, this comes down to cheap labor.

A large number of "high paying" American jobs will be candidates for outsourcing in the future unless labor costs are pushed down.

This isn't as simple as improving quality or offering more value; it already is better here.

[Gunslingr3]

Goes against Free trade by having an American do the work.

Free trade doesn't care who does the work, just that the consumer (trader) gets the best possible benefit.

[rightofrush]

Most excellent suggestions, but they will never fly.

They would preclude the NWO goals of RINO Bush, don' cha know.

[Gunslingr3]

I prefer reality and sound mathematics.

Which is why economics will continue to confound you. How much I want one apple can't be measured and compared to how much you want an apple, or how much either of us would want a hundred apples. Valuation is subjective and as importantly, temporal. Liberty lets the individual use their talents to satisfy their wants as they see fit, you're trying to pull the levers of government coercion to get an outcome you desire, your fellow man's liberty and desires be damned.

The mathematical approach to economics was attempted by the GOSPLANners, who were confounded by reality at every turn. You want to substitute your wisdom for the wisdom in action of 280 million independent and free human beings. We're just so many cogs in the machine you envision as the economy.

[junta]

See 1992's election results.

[null and void]

Worth repeating:

Anyone who doesn't grasp the significance of this issue...will be out of power January 2005.

And then we will all be in REAL trouble...

[SouthParkRepublican]

”No, I call them communist for wanting the government to take care of them.”

So you don’t make a distinction between a government “taking care” of it’s people (I’m assuming you mean in the same sense as social entitlements) and a government looking out for the general well being of the nations business practices in international trade? There is a distinction.

The government imposing tariffs on nations that engage in unfair trade practices does not guarantee any prospective US employee a job. There is no entitlement. Only better opportunity to go out and make ones own way and this is (IMHO) exactly what the Fed should be doing. Working to make it easier for people to TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES and to improve their lot in life and making it easier for businesses to operate domestically (less regulation and limited liability).

[Cronos]

Blue is correct. Our economy is the strongest it's eer been. we dominate the world in every sphere except maybe Sumo wrestling (no sorry, there was a Hawaiin champ right?). Europe and Japan are no competition. Remember the Japanese also started out as manufacturers of cheap products before upgrading, improving their lifestyle and making the world safer. Do we fear a threat from the ppl of germany or Japan now? No! That's as they have a good lifestyle. China nd India provide cheap products now, thy're improbving their ppls lifestyle. The commies in china would be out soon and India is democratic. These won't be threats to teh US, they won't be attacking us. The loonies will be in the dead end countries like in the mid east (with the exception of the UAE and Bahrain which have made the effort to diversifty their economies).

[null and void]

Your doom and gloom is absolutely astounding as well.

You tell 'em, Pollyanna!

[Gunslingr3]

government looking out for the general well being of the nations business practices in international trade?

I do not assume the government improves the 'general well being' of the nation by making goods more expensive than they otherwise would be. It is by realizing new efficiencies, not by restricting access to them, that new capital savings can be realized and provide the resources for continued growth.

The government imposing tariffs on nations that engage in unfair trade practices does not guarantee any prospective US employee a job.

Correct, but it does guarantee a consumer has to pay more for a product, thus leaving him less capital to invest, or otherwise spend to improve his standard of living. Hence my distaste for government intervention in the markets.

this is (IMHO) exactly what the Fed should be doing. Working to make it easier for people to TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES and to improve their lot in life and making it easier for businesses to operate domestically (less regulation and limited liability).

I'm all for less regulation, I just don't think increased regulation of trade is the vehicle that will get us there.

[null and void]

And please explain to me how you pay a mortgage on McDonalds's pay. ~ Tokhtamish

Get a smaller house? ~ Texas_Dawg

I see. My 1000 sq ft 1906 vintage house is too good for me?

Sell the stupid computer you are using to get online about what jobs you've been too good for over the past year of unemployment (as that guy was doing) ~ Texas_Dawg

And were I a carpenter, would you expect me to sell my saw and hammers?

Dude, on the off chance you're living in a cave, engineers use computers for their jobs. I still have my slide rule, but it's lousy for report writing. It's terrible for editing resumes to specificly target a given job opening. And it's hopeless for finding job leads on the web.

and cancel your internet bills? ~ Texas_Dawg

Just by happenstance I cancled my earthlink account yesterday. Happy now?

[null and void]

They must all hate "the little man".

Did you recognize your kindred spirits?

[GOP_1900AD]

The cure for suicidal levels of outsourcing is a series of treason and espionage investigations. These investigations would be two fold. Firstly, all operations in the US must be investigated (and if applicable, prosecuted) regarding just who are the non Citizen employees and contractors (including a full security clearance investigation to determine past and present membership in hostile military, intelligence orgs and terrorist operations) and what they are allowed to do and see at their hiring companies. Secondly, all overseas operations and outsourced suppliers must be investigated similarly with the addition of explicit studies regarding transfers of knowledge and technology which could be used by the Communists, Islamists and other anti Western forces in a future and highly probable war of mass destruction. For all positive findings headquarters leadership would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This proposal was documented via a white paper which was distributed to Homeland Security, the DoJ and other Federal investigative authorities and intelligence agencies.

[null and void]

I'll admit that I used to be a lot more reasonable when I had a job.

The line of the day...