Posted on 08/24/2003 7:47:01 PM PDT by Mr. Mulliner
There are still some Calvinist Anglicans around, though I wouldn't be sure for how much longer. :)
Some men just look better with a few years on them.
I really liked him in Sense and Sensibility - he got to play a good guy for once.
My daughter walked through the room as I was watching S&S, stopped, stared for a moment, then asked, "Is that Professor Snape?"
Yup.
I caught one of those on television last weekend. St. Gregory's in San Francisco. They had tie-dyed and batik vestments. Ceramic chalices. A menorah. Strange little fringed umbrellas in the procession. The entire congregation danced a kind of serpentine dance around the communion table.
I wondered, at what point in the ceremony do they burn the giant wicker man?...
There really is no Biblical warrant for faithful believers living together in the same community but refusing to worship together or to have anything to do with each other.
For me, the Church is about disciples of Jesus Christ. It isn't about making people feel good or preaching the right message or being tolerant or centrist or radical or anything like that. If Jesus Christ would be a radical in our culture, then the Church will be radical. If He would be a moderate, then the Church will be moderate.
The culture changes. The Church should not change. If it's going to change, it should stop calling itself the Church and start calling itself a club. And people who don't care about being a disciple of Jesus Christ should ignore her (except when they need her help, of course).
Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Shalom.
Within the Episcopal church, High church is more formal in all of its ceremonies. Low church is less formal, but not less liturgical. All use one of the rites from the Book of Common Prayer to ensure all the elements of the service are included. But they may use more or fewer servers at the altar, more or fewer lay people, incense or no, organs or guitars, etc.
Shalom.
Well, our decision for now is to wait until October, when two important things are going to happen: (1) the orthodox bishops will be meeting in Plano TX to decide on a course of action IIRC Oct. 8-9. (2) the Archbishop of Canterbury has called an emergency meeting Oct. 16 to discuss the subject.
What is decided at those two meetings will determine our direction. If the orthodox bishops ask for and obtain from Canterbury recognition as "the" Episcopal Church in communion with Canterbury, or recognition as a parallel province in communion with Canterbury, we will find a church in that group to join. If not, we will be looking at breakaway Anglican congregations and two local Catholic parishes.
My husband's advice is to wait until October and see how it shakes out, and I have always found his counsel on matters of this sort to be correct (myself, I am ready to march with a pitchfork and blazing torch . . . but I know he's right.)
My mother, who is disgustingly liberal (she can't help it, she's a professional dancer), said to him the other day, "Oh, you're not going to leave the church over this, are you?" He smiled his cheerful smile (the one he smiles as he throws people head over heels in aikido class) and said, "Watch me."
Another definition of "evangelical," Luther's original meaning, is a believer whose faith is based upon the Gospels. In other words, a Bible based faith.
But it's mostly surface stuff. All Episcopalians use the same prayer book (although you'll find that "high" churches tend to use Rite I and "low" churches Rite II). The only serious doctrinal point that I can find any disagreement on is the Real Presence. High says yes, Low says no.
The XXXIX Articles at this point are more of a historical curiosity than anything else. They are highly colored by the politics of the reign of Elizabeth I . . . and they were removed from the latest revision of the prayer book as a statement of belief - they are now styled a "historical document".
This was necessary because of some of the frankly anti-Catholic language contained therein . . . the first time we went to church as a married couple (a LONG time ago!), we wound up at an ultramontane church in Atlanta - perhaps "the" ultramontane church in the metro area - and my husband kept asking me during the service "do you believe in [incense, the Rosary, etc.]" I would respond, "Some of us do, some of us don't. It's o.k." Then Fr. Roy Pettway (now retired and may no longer be with us - this was over 25 years ago) climbed into the pulpit and preached on Purgatory (on Easter, yet!) Hubby asked, "Do you believe in that?" I replied that I didn't think so and flipped to the XXXIX articles - which denounce it as a "vain and Popish doctrine, fondly invented" - and said, "Nope . . . apparently not, but apparently HE thinks so . . . " I told my dad about this episode, and he just rolled his eyes and said, "Well, that's Roy!"
For Episcop's High Church ='s Bells and smells
Evangelicals really torqued the more conventional Anglicans not only because they tended to be drawn from the lower and middle classes rather than being "gentlemen," but also because of their emphasis on a personal, public conversion, charismatic preaching, and aggressive enforcement of Sabbath-keeping (Trollope has a field day with Mr. Slope and Mrs. Proudie forcing their views on the poor of Barchester). Sabbath-keeping was thought to be the province of the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland, and enforcing it aggressively was considered a species of busy-bodying and bad form, particularly since the Anglican church was supported by the government and everybody was taxed for it. Anglicans were suspicious of charismatic preaching and too much emotion in the services, because many suspected the sort of "pastor-worship" that sometimes grows out of it. When the Wesley brothers and George Whitefield attracted hysterical crowds and women fainted below the pulpit, the old-line Anglicans went, "Tsk, tsk! You see?"
This sort of general feeling has carried on into the Episcopal church in America, even though the church is not state supported and (as Kipling said) "they's no gentry over there - they's only rich and poor allowed."
There is ample authority. FWIW, scripture proves your assumption that local churchs without central authority won't be in conflict is wrong.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.