FOX NEWS: ALABAMA TEN COMMANDMENTS JUDGE SUSPENDED...

Drudge Report ^ | 08/22/03 | Matt Drudge

[Pokey78]

Orlando Salinas broke in a few minutes ago and announced this on Fox News.

[WOSG]

The rock's rights arent being violated by this flawed ruling - our rights are being violated, as free excercise and free expression is being limited and denied by the ACLU's cultural cleansing of the public sphere.

And yet you dont address the ethical point: If principles and conscience collide with what the powers-that-be say, it is the ethically small-minded that will "follow orders" that are injust and men of true conscience that will stand for what is right, even if it is against the powers-that-be.

If you deny this as a legitimiate path, you deny the legitimacy of MLK and Ghandhi. So be it.

Your response is "Lame".

[strela]

And all the founding fathers words that supported it.

With material that the courts have construed as promoting one set of religious beliefs over others.

It's a historical monument.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But that's irrelevant. It contains material espousing one set of religious beliefs over others, and as such in a public building it has to go.

[ArneFufkin]

Luis, it is obvious that this shyster Judge unilaterally positioned this monument as a provocation that would be challenged and create an inflammatory scene. That makes him a cynical, ruthless operator.

But in his clumsy machinations to garner a "last bastion of Christian resistance" standing of moral and principled etched in stone case law - which the gang down in Bamy' go absolutely googoo gaga apeshit over - he corrupted the most sacrosanct individual American rights we have ... the 5th, 6th and 8th Amendments to the Constitution. A courtroom is a liberty chapel ... it is our only defense against the oppression of the state. Dame Justice is blind ... NO SHE ISN'T, SHE'S CHRISTIAN AND SHE SEES YOUR TURBAN AND SHE'S NOT HAPPY.

Can you imagine what is going through the mind of an American Sikh going into a court of law before Roy Moore wearing his religious headdress, assuming that he will be protected by his inalienalbe Constitutional rights as an American to a fair trial, jury of peers, reasonable bail ... and see upon entering the Courthouse a featured monument of Christian Affirmation - oh good Timir learns, it was placed in the center of the courthouse by the judge who will be deciding his case. Do you have any trust that Moore wouldn't rule based on the faith of the litigants before him? What Muslim feels his rights are being protected?

That's an obscene attack on the MOST important institution for individual liberty in America ... our courts. Moore is a scumbag, pure and simple. He put politics over his sacred duty to create a landscape of fairness, impartiality and trust.

And Luis, let's not ignore the ugly underbelly here, because I do believe there's a track record in that part of the world: If you believe America is a Christian nation, then you can believe America is a Caucasian nation and an Anglo/Teutonic nation. That linking has been done before, the guys in the robes were very devout servants of Christ.

[WOSG]

And what particular "religion" is espoused in the following display of Judge Moore's?

Christianity. Neeeeext?

---

1. hmmm, yet Orthodox Jewish Rabbis are supporting Judge Moore.
Trying opening the mind a tad wider.

2. Christianity is not a sect, so that deflates the "sectarian" angle, woudl you not agree?
3. You left out the context ... the whole monument. How is a display consisting mostly of OUR FOUNDING FATHERS' QUOTES AND DOCUMENTS an espousal of "Christianity"? ...

"Shaped like a cube, this four-foot-tall monument displays the Ten Commandments on the top. Each of the four sides of the cube features famous American words: "Laws of nature and of nature's God" from the Declaration of Independence (1776), "In God we Trust" from our national motto (1956), "One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" from our Pledge of Allegiance (1954), and "So help me God" from the oath of office in the Judiciary Act (1789).

The remaining space on the sides of the cube is filled with quotations from famous Americans such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and our first Chief Justice John Jay, from William Blackstone, and from our National Anthem. "

Seems clear, this is a testimonial to the influences on our founding fathers.

[strela]

The rock's rights arent being violated by this flawed ruling

You are claiming, seriously, that A PIECE OF ROCK has rights? What next - citizenship for Douglas Fir trees?

our rights are being violated, as free excercise and free expression is being limited and denied by the ACLU's cultural cleansing of the public sphere.

(hypothetical ON)

Why should I, a worshiper of ruby-throated hummingbirds, be forced to use my tax dollars to pay for religious icons for believers in the religion that worships yellow-bellied sapsuckers?

(hypothetical OFF)

And yet you dont address the ethical point: If principles and conscience collide with what the powers-that-be say, it is the ethically small-minded that will "follow orders" that are injust and men of true conscience that will stand for what is right, even if it is against the powers-that-be.

"What is right" is not refusing to obey the law simply because you don't agree with it.

If you deny this as a legitimiate path, you deny the legitimacy of MLK and Ghandhi.

You forgot Al Capone (he didn't think that the Volstead Act and the Internal Revenue code should apply to him, so he broke them). You forgot Charles Manson (he didn't think that the laws against murder and conspiracy to commit murder should apply to him, so he broke them). Your argument is specious in that it can be used to justify any lawbreaking of any kind.

[Roscoe]

Orthodox Jewish Rabbis are supporting Judge Moore.

Those Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Christians are the worst kind!

[concerned about politics]

And all the founding fathers words that supported it.

With material that the courts have construed as promoting one set of religious beliefs over others.

Yeh, like that really stupid stuff like the Constitution, Declaration of Independance, and all that pro-Christian crap on the sides of it. They all speak of God. American history MUST be eliminated from that courthouse! - NOT!

[strela]

Orthodox Jewish Rabbis are supporting Judge Moore.

So? They aren't federal judges or Supreme Court judges. And those are the guys (and gals) you have to convince before you wad up the First Amendment to the Constitution like so much toilet paper.

[strela]

Yeh, like that really stupid stuff like the Constitution, Declaration of Independance, and all that pro-Christian crap on the sides of it. They all speak of God.

Yes, God. NOT the Ten Commandments.

[Roscoe]

David Limbaugh noted:

Even liberal Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas acknowledged that the framers didn't forbid all church and state interaction. In Zorach vs. Clausen (1952), he stated: "The First Amendment ... does not say that in every and all respects there shall be a separation of Church and State. ... Otherwise the state and religion would be aliens to each other -- hostile, suspicious, and even unfriendly. ... Municipalities would not be permitted to render police or fire protection to religious groups. Policemen who helped parishioners into their places of worship would violate the Constitution. Prayers in our legislative halls; the appeals to the Almighty in the messages of the Chief Executive; the proclamation of Thanksgiving as a holiday; 'so help me God' in our courtroom oaths -- these and all laws, our public rituals, our ceremonies, would be flouting the First Amendment."

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/david/limbaugh062899.asp

[Roscoe]

They aren't federal judges

Clearly not. They aren't legislating from the bench.

[Once-Ler]

A) It was a metaphor, not literal.

Butt-Buddy is a metaphor? You may call an insult "a metaphor" if you choose. Honest adults do not need to obscure their words in tongue-twisting politispeak. When we write it is "literal."

E) I'm not a good Christian. You insult good Christians by trying to compare me to them. Stop it.

I insulted no Christians. I never said you were a good Christian. In fact, I implied you were no Christian at all.

Have a nice day.

[NutCrackerBoy]

Can you imagine what is going through the mind of an American Sikh going into a court of law before Roy Moore wearing his religious headdress, assuming that he will be protected by his inalienalbe Constitutional rights as an American to a fair trial, jury of peers, reasonable bail ... and see upon entering the Courthouse a featured monument of Christian Affirmation - oh good Timir learns, it was placed in the center of the courthouse by the judge who will be deciding his case. Do you have any trust that Moore wouldn't rule based on the faith of the litigants before him? What Muslim feels his rights are being protected?

The bottom line is his rights are being protected. It is PC to try to cleanse the courtroom of any and all references to actual history.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Actually, as of 2001 the percentage of Judeo-Christians in the USA is slightly less than 78%.

" What is "sectarian" about the Ten Commandments, the root of *all* Judeo-Christian sects"

It's like watching my dog chase her tail...

[Luis Gonzalez]

Moses delivered the Ten Commandments in Alabama?

[ArneFufkin]

Roscoe, the Holy Word in an American courtroom is the Constitutional rule of law. The Ten Commandments stay out on the front steps, our secular Constitution embraces all the tenets of that sublime directive from God. But in the courtroom, we are without religion, race, gender, ethnicity and age .. we're only and blessedly Americans. There's no place for a Judeo-Christian religious monument in a COURTHOUSE where Americans of all faiths are entitled to equal justice. That monument, placed where it was and how it was, was a contemptuous provocation.

[concerned about politics]

Why should I, a worshiper of ruby-throated hummingbirds, be forced to use my tax dollars to pay for religious icons for believers in the religion that worships yellow-bellied sapsuckers?

For the same reason we yellow-bellied sap suckers are forced by law to support your ruby-throated hummingbird beliefs. Why pay for land that supports only athiests when we're not athiests? Because you make us! Is that "freedom"?
No. You pay, we pay. We should BOTH be able to use it. We'll keep the Moore courthouse, you can have the one in Hillarys neighborhood.

[Once-Ler]

"Do you think consensual thumb-wars between adults is a legitimate Constitutional right, yes or no?"

[WOSG]

As someone from the Northeast who lives in the south now, I have seen and interacted enough on both sides of Mason-Dixon to detect the "ugly underbelly" as you call it ... of anti-Southern bigotry and North/south animosity. from the north: the hicks, rednecks, the view of southerners as crackers from 'dleiverance' the 'bible thumpers' ready to send people to jail for dancing. uh huh. and of course the N- word, they must use that all the time down south ... Funny thing is, I met more racists up north than down south. And the Christians I met were *never* as meddlesome as the Liberal atheist or new-ager types or the northeast RINO/WASP prigs who lost their religion but not their sanctimony.

Let me not presume, but those are the thoughts that were triggered by your spleen-venting - the contrast of presumption and reality. trying to cast Moore as the latter-day Elmer Gantry. True, or projection? Friend, maybe you should spot-check your own biases before pontificating about others'.

[montag813]

Wow!

Sarcasm begets more sarcasm. What a day.