Replies

this madison?

James Madison

"Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance"
..........James Madison, 1822, Writings, 9:101

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"
..........James Madison, undated, William and Mary Quarterly, 1946, 3:555

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
.........."A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
..........."A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"The appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, [is] contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment'"
..........James Madison, 1811, Writings, 8:133

Madison did NOT support government in religion or religion in government. Patrick did. And using patrick's quote to imply that the founders as a whole believed in joining them in any way, would be dishonest deception...

The "religion in government," stone monolith worshippers use quotes like patrick's OUTof context, and ignore the fact that his bill to join religion and government was defeated by the "founders" present in Virginia at the time...

That was my point.
and Monroe's
Virginia REJECTED the joining of religion and state.

Monroe always appealed to a UNIVERSAL God, not the religion specific, JUDEO-Christian one...

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At the time that the First Amendment was written and adopted, seven states had the Church of England as their established religion, five had some other religion established. Only one had no established religion.

Congress is not allowed under the First Amendment to make any law regarding this one way or another, and without a Federal law on the matter, the Federal courts have no jurisdiction over it. This is simply judicial tyranny.

The Alabama Constitution makes it clear that it is based on Christianity.

Try this: The next time you're in DC, go to the Jefferson Memorial and the Lincoln Memorial. Read the inscriptions on the walls. They speak prominently of God. Should we have to take them down, or remove the inscriptions, since these are Federal buildings?

In the Supreme Court is a statue of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. Yet somehow it's not OK for Judge Moore?

You nuts want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and the constitution doesn't give you that right. It rather gives us the right to prevent it. Congress shall make NO law.. It is in no way vague. The clause was designed to allow people their religious freedom while keeping the government from forcing you to become Catholic, Mormon, etc.
The government is not forcing you to become christian by acknowledging there is a God. It is not forcing you to become Christian by noting that our system of laws is based on the ten commandments. It has compelled you to do nothing. You're intollerance on the other hand compells you to throw a fit because you don't like God or Christianity I would assume. That would be your problem, not ours or that of the Constitution.

As long as the Government Doesn't force you to be of religion X or prevent you from practicing religion X, it has just about met it's obligation. The government cannot infringe your right to pursue your own religious convictions. It doesn't give you the right to suspend the government from stating it's opinions. I would note that it's opinions are not law nor are they an infringement against you in any way. So let's drop the pretense. Cause this fact is what has people up in arms right now and most of us have had it.