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To: inquest
Wow - that is an impressive stretch. You must work on that every day.

First - as you well know, "separation of church and state" is a shorthand phrase and does not appear in the Founders' discussions of the Constitution prior to ratification.

Second - your insistence that a church must have some undefined level of "organization" to be an "established" state religion is disproved all over the world. There are even many Christian denominations that do not have the level of organization you require.

Third - your reinterpretation of Madison's words borders on the dishonest. I can have duties to my Creator, and discharge those duties, without ever having a single contact with an organized Church. He never said anything about the level of "organization" which would qualify a religion as one which can be "established" and you know it.

964 posted on 08/22/2003 10:34:13 AM PDT by lugsoul
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To: lugsoul
First - as you well know, "separation of church and state" is a shorthand phrase and does not appear in the Founders' discussions of the Constitution prior to ratification.

You said "not a single mention" regarding the level of organization. You made no reference to the timing. And it is cited widely, as you well know.

Second - your insistence that a church must have some undefined level of "organization" to be an "established" state religion is disproved all over the world.

It's "disproved" only by your interpretation of what goes on in those other countries. You call it establishment. I call it limitation of free exercise. We discussed that above.

Third - your reinterpretation of Madison's words borders on the dishonest. I can have duties to my Creator, and discharge those duties, without ever having a single contact with an organized Church. He never said anything about the level of "organization" which would qualify a religion as one which can be "established" and you know it.

I wasn't saying he was. I was quoting him as a way of countering what appeared to me to be your view that "religion" and "religious belief" are synonymous. That's what I believe is at the center of our disagreement.

979 posted on 08/22/2003 10:58:11 AM PDT by inquest (We are NOT the world)
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