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Let's imagine for a moment that you're alone in a room of femi-nazis with your Freeper male buddy, and that for some reason you were trying to make peace with them. Would you make the old "what do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes", in everyone's hearing?

I honestly found the Designer joke a bit offensive, too, but let it slide because (1) of the noise interference that Aric2000 talked about which is gone now, and (2) I knew that no one meant any harm by it.

There are more constructive ways to make your point about the universe or the human body appearing to not to be a result of design than to suggest that the Designer (normally taken to be the Christian God in these threads) is intoxicated. And, potentially offensive jokes should be kept between freepmails.

No, we will probably never get the apologies or admissions we want... but that does not mean that we should not do the right thing ourselves: apologize unconditionally, think of how the situation could be avoided next time, and just move on... Aric2000, I know you already apologized and meant it, but, really, it did come across as being very defensive... :-(

I'm beginning to understand a little of how Alamo-Girl feels, being under pressure from both sides... from the evos to correct her own side, and the other to give the "wrong" side the smackdown.

Thank y'all so much for the heads up on this discussion! Thank you for your wisdom and insight, Nakatu X! Thank you, Aric2000, for apologizing to those of us who are hurt by jokes about our Creator.

AndrewC, I realize you are probably frustrated at being reminded so often that you are an "outsider" to the agreement. I regret any ill will you may have suffered or experienced.

One of the essential things that we built into the agreement was a provision that each side would exercise good faith to "police" their own. The provision should help avoid having one side pointing fingers at the other to comply, thereby justifying a counter response of the same type, i.e. a flame war of compliance.

I strongly suspect the tension here is caused by that kind of 'us' v 'them' atmosphere. Hopefully, everyone will now accept that this issue has been satisfied as far as it can be under the circumstances and put it behind us.