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To: Ichneumon
Okay, let's see if I can explain it this way...

First, part of your confusion (in this, and in a lot of other topics in this thread)
Yes, wise master.

comes from your insistence on declaring that things must be 100% A or 100% B.
Oh, like things must be 100% by chance and 100% non-supernatural???

The living world is not so black and white. The range of living things is a continuum more often than it's either/or. And not just across time, either -- several people have asked you to ponder the existence of "ring species", but I haven't seen you tackle it yet.
I already agreed speciation (sp?) takes place. With ring species you still have types of salamander and types of herring gulls. Mutations may have caused them not to be able to breed with one another any more. However, they are still fundamentally gulls.

Furthermore, creationists often fail to appreciate the significance of the "nested hierarchies" of living things.
Assuming there is a nested hierarchy of thing (it's a man made classification based upon his observance, but his observance can often be skewed or distorted), why would such a thing be a problem for creationists? God could have arranged things in groupings as such and reused certain design ideas in the process. It does not mean that everything in that grouping is descended from the same ancestor. That's what evolutionists don't seem to appreciate. Just because there are similarities, does not equal macro evolution. God, being a very very wise individual, likely knew what design features would work the best for the creatures he was creating and created several creatures with similar features (including similar DNA if need be).

It's as incorrect to say that a specific creature must be *either* a human *or* an ape as it is to say that a creature must be *either* a lion *or* a cat. Ponder that one for a moment, and then you'll be ready to understand the point of the essay You Are an Ape. Please read it.
Says YOU. You say it is incorrect. I disagree.

Regarding the article you linked. The Pekinese is a DOG. It was the result of breeding other DOGS. It will never be anything other than a DOG, and it will never produce anything other than other DOGS. NOT Macroevolution.

Part two of the article:> A giraffe has never given birth > to a horse, as far as we know it. An ape has never given birth to a man.

> I will give a million bucks to anyone who can observe an ape giving

> birth to a human. Even your mother, if such were true.

Apes beget apes, and Man is an ape,
which means that a man's mother is also an ape.
Apes have given birth to man
just as birds beget ducks
cetaceans beget dolphins
and canids beget dogs.

Saying man is an ape does not make it so. A group of bonehead scientists getting in a room and saying he is an ape doesn't make it so. God called him MAN. He is a man.

The rest of the article is a bunch of statements about how modern man classifies man that proves zilch. To that I would answer...

You are a HUMAN.

You were created in the image of God with a spirit and a soul and an ability to discern right from wrong.
You are a man. You were created with an intelligence that exceeds any human being, and intelligence which allows you to create or destroy, to write poetry or music, to make machines, tools, and things which can make life better or worse.

You are a man, you were created with a yearning to know more, to explore, or to just be true to yourself. You know the difference.

You are a man. You are capable of sin, and of acting righteously. You make laws based upon the standards of your Creator and have a basis for valuing each human life within His law.

You are a man, you build buildings to shelter yourself, make clothing to clothe yourself, grow and hunt food to feed yourself, and if you are fortunate, you surround yourself with others who love and cherish you as well.

You are man. You organize, theorize, legitimize, ostracize, idealize, and energize. You have emotions, you have whit, you have creativity, you have imagination. You are built and designed to be the person that God created you to be, in spite of the fall and you are loved by the Creator who made you and died to bring you closer to Him. You may try to theorize Him away, or just innocently explain things without use of mentioning His activity, but you can not be rid of Him and He is ever watching You, drawing You, calling You, and loving You. While He loves all of His creation and will one day cause their groaning to cease, He loves you most of all- for you are man, His special treasure, His jewel, the one He sent His Son to redeem, and the one He wants to save. Oh, you may claim to be something less than what you are, but it will not change the person that God created you to be. No, you are not an ape. You are created in God's image and are precious in His sight. You are man.



As to the rest of your post. Icheneumon, I have already stated that there can be a ton of variation within a species, but not the kind evolution requires. Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Fish are fish. Plants are plants. And human beings are human beings.

Incidentally, just because the wisdom teeth don't appear to quite fit- how does that mean they came from an ape mouth? There were giants in the days of Noah. We were probably just bigger back then before the climactic change of the flood.
2,219 posted on 08/22/2003 9:30:06 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
Assuming there is a nested hierarchy of thing (it's a man made classification based upon his observance, but his observance can often be skewed or distorted), why would such a thing be a problem for creationists?

Because some of the evidence of the hieirarchy is things like fossil viruses, which were certainly not put there by God (but I guess they could have been by some less-concientious designer).

2,233 posted on 08/22/2003 10:47:22 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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