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To: Aric2000
Please read your Bible, not your catechism. Start with Mark 10:6, Matthew 25:34, Mark 10:6, Mark 13:19 John 17:24, Romans 1:25, Romans 8, Luke 3:38,Romans 5:12,Romans 5:14,Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:16,1 Corinthians 15:22,1 Timothy 2:13-14, and Jude 1:14.

As far as Jewish Rabbi's go, any one who believes such goes against the clear literal application of the 4th commandment itself. Jesus believed in a literal creation, as did Paul, as did Jude, as did the apostles, as did the majority of the early fathers who wrote on the topic. An interesting article on the subject is found http://www.robibrad.demon.co.uk/Chapter3.htm
1,385 posted on 08/19/2003 11:15:31 AM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
Mark 10
6 But from the beginning of the creation, 'God made them male and female.

Sounds pretty general to me.

Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, neither shall be.

Again, sounds pretty general

John 17
24 "Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which Thou hast given Me; for Thou loved Me before the foundation of the world.


Again, sounds pretty general

Romans 1
25 They changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Again, generalizations

Romans 8

Sorry, not gonna post that whole thing. It's real pretty, but says NOTHING about the literal interpretation of genesis.

Luke 3
38 who was the son of Enos, who was the son of Seth, who was the son of Adam, who was the son of God.


That's a bit better, but the geneaology in the bible is confusing and screwed up at best. I can come up with ALL kinds of interesting geneology. And I thought that Jesus was the son of god? Not at all convincing, considering the historical accuracy of Luke.

Romans 5
12 Therefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, so death passed onto all men, for all have sinned.

Again pretty general, but at the same time that is the moral of Genesis, the basic sinfulness of man. That is what the story tries to explain.

Romans 5
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the similitude of Adam's transgression, he being the figure of Him that was to come.

That is better as well, but at the same time can be looked at in allegory.

Ephesians 3
9 and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ,


OK, god made heaven and the earth, I won't argue with you about that. Again, not anything about taking genesis literally.

Colossians 1
16 For by Him were all things created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him.

Again, NOTHING about taking genesis literally.

1 Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;


Allegory? says nothing about Genesis being taken literally.

1 Timothy 2
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived; but the woman, being deceived, was in the transgression.


Yes, indeed, this one, the blame women for the original sin, yes, I have seen this one. This could be stretched I suppose to taking Genesis literally, but again, it can be taken allegorically as well.

Jude 1
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand of His saints


Yes, again, another geneaological reference to Adam. Very good, but still not enough. Because I have heard from a number of scholars that the references to geneaology are normally to make a point at how important the person is, and the geneaology is impossible to track, and when you take them all together, the geneaology is a total disaster, so most geneaological references can be written off as additions by the author to make the person spoken about seem more important then they actually were, or to give the speaker more credibility.

I am a skeptic at heart, and I have an open mind to such things, but none of the stuff that you have given me there, proves that Jesus indeed took genesis as anything but allegorically and as a moral myth, just as most did and do.

His disciples may have, I will not argue that, but they were also not as well educated as Jesus was himself. The man was well educated in all sorts of religious doctrine, and there are MANY different relgious styles within his teachings. If you study religious history and beliefs, they would POP right out at you.

1,436 posted on 08/19/2003 2:11:46 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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