[WhiskeyPapa]

There is very little reason to doubt Butler's account.

There is no reason it can be accepted as historical data. It cannot be corroborated; it is a supposed conversation between two parties. The other party never spoke of it (and died 4 days later). It cannot possibly be given historical credence. You don't have to be a scholar to say that. Common sense will tell you.

There is no proof that Butler and Lincoln even met on the day in question.

Walt

[Held_to_Ransom]

BUtler was second in command of the armies in the field in the East, and the man to whom Lincoln first offered the vice-presidency. They were in frequent contact over a number of issues, and the topic was certainly not considered one that either would have made public in that era.

With all due respece, your reply is clearly insufficient in the matter as Butler is very clear that the conversations took place over a number of days, and some with others present. Lincoln was in the habit of walking over to the war department on a daily basis, and Butler was there during the period. In addition, the last meeting on the matter, which was between Butler and Stanton, was a dinner engagement, so such things were quite possible with Lincoln. You can't possibly prove that Lincoln's calender would reflect every highly sensitive and casual meeting with the man who was then playing some of the most critical roles in the progress of the war. Butler could have called unscheduled at any time in the day without appointment, and Lincoln would have talked to him immedialely.

The fact that Lincoln never wrote his memoirs is a truly silly argument, you must do better than that.

Besides, in the face of it all are two far more important issues that your stance defies. One is that the overall response in the country to the abolition of Americans of African heritage was a hundred years of segregation. While there were admirable ahd historic exceptions to this contemptable behaviour, they were few and far between.

Secondly, Lincoln was very much correct in his expectations that widespread manumission would result in race horrors on an unprecedented scale, particularly in the south where for years racial atrocities, as well as atrocities committed against white republicans were indeed commonplace. The fact that Butler played such a critical and crucial role then and in our age as a result of his KKK legislation in terms of finally ending such barbarisms and injustices speaks most highly of not only his great integrity, but of his critical contributions to the eventual development of civilization in the south.

[Held_to_Ransom]

There is no reason it can be accepted as historical data. It cannot be corroborated; it is a supposed conversation between two parties.

There is no reason to discount Butler on the matter on then the dregs of historical racial paranoia. The man had an exemplary career and achieved some of the most remarkable results of any general in the entire war. The real source of his character assassination, which you continue to promulgate, was his use of Americans of African heritage, and his opposition to the KKK. Nothing more.

As for corroboration, I call you attention again to the accounts of Lincoln's conversations at Hampton Roads with both Stanton and Stephens present, and their separate but parallel accounts of Lincolns intent with the Proclamation.

I would call your attention again to Stevens, who actually wrote and steered the real legislation that freed Americans of African heritage, though, just as Lincoln intended, it was ultimately SCOTUS who reversed this legislation. Of his views and the debates over this legislation there is abundant documentation, and when you deny Butler, you essentially deny the whole pattern of the history of those years. Surely, you need to rethink your views on the era.

However, the achiements of Butler, Sumner and Stevens had their irrefutable impact, and laid down the direction towards the real future of the nation.

[GOPcapitalist]

There is no proof that Butler and Lincoln even met on the day in question.

Once again Walt that is a falsehood and you are a liar. The meeting between Butler and Lincoln was scheduled in writing by Lincoln's secretary John Hay.

From the index of Routine Correspondences for 1865 in The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln Volume 8, edited by Roy Basler, page 588:

"Apr. 10. To Benjamin F. Butler, Hay for Lincoln, making appointment for ``tomorrow,''"

Butler's meeting is corroborated in the scheduling by Lincoln's own secretary. Live with it.