Episcopal Church Problems

vanity | Sunday, August 10, 2003 | altura

[altura]

We had discussed posting what happened in our Episcopal churches this Sunday morning.

I’m in the diocese let by Bishop Stanton, one of the 11 Bishops who walked out of the General Assembly in protest. He wrote a letter to all the parishioners to be read to each congregation by the Priest.

Our Priest did not want to read the letter and said so. However, she did because she had taken a vow to obey the Bishop. In itself the letter didn’t say much other than expressing his deep concern for the direction of the Church and announcing the meeting on October 12th to which all of the Priests and other leaders of the diocese will be expected to attend.

He also mentioned the meeting called in England by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Prior to her reading this letter, she preached on the lesson from Ephesians, which was read today, quoting the following:

“Put away from you all bitterness and wrath and anger and wrangling and slander, together with all malice, and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ has forgiven you.”

She also suggested we e-mail Bishop Stanton with our opinions.

Does anyone else have an experience to share?

[RonF]

I was out at Boy Scout Summer camp for the week with the Troop our parish sponsors (and that I am Scoutmaster of). I heard about this through the grapevine. The service priest that was in our church on the 3rd apparently thought this was a great thing, to the consternation of many (but not all) of the parish. On the 10th, our pastor spoke. It was his first Sunday back after weeks of recovery after heart surgery. He did not tell us that it was either right or wrong. He told us that based on his conversations with parishioners, we ourselves were divided, but that having different opinions on subjects like this was well within the Anglican tradition. He said that we needed to think about what was going on for a while. I give the guy a pass due to his recent issues. But I'm going to talk to him about it. This issue is not going to go away.

[vaudine]

Thanks for the reply.

That Robin(sin)-mispelled it accidently, and decided this spelling is more appropriate--was not defrocked as he would have been for adultery with another woman shows the extent people/churches/society will go in order to be "tolerant" and "understand" homosexuality. Leaders in ECUSA have just been blinded to their responsibilities and what is moral and biblical has been sacrificed to the PC touchy,feely love and unity brigades.

vaudine

[Irene Adler]

"Our "priestess" as some of you delight in calling her (I call her Mother N.) suggested we e-mail our thoughts to Bishop Stanton. As soon as this thread dies down (probably tomorrow morning) I intend to e-mail the whole thread to the Bishop."

I would like to take this opportunity to say "Hello" and "Thank you" to "Father Jim" from a former St. Luke's parishoner. I really appreciate what you are doing for the Church, Bishop Stanton. I am currently investigating Anglican alternatives to ECUSA. Will watch with much interest and concern for what transpires in October. Good luck with whatever course of action your group decides upon. I will be with you in spirit and with more than spirit if I can find a Bible-believing parish home.

[Irene Adler]

"Their celebrations are premature. This meeting the Archibishop of Canterbury has called may end up handing the ECUSA an ultiamtum: "

Unfortunately, it will not happen this way, the Arch. of Canterbury is a cultural leftist, and he will find a way to side with ECUSA. You watch.

[Irene Adler]

We had a female priest for a brief time in my parish, a personal slob, a very poor administrator, was unprepared for services and sometimes "froze up" in front of the congregation, did a LOUSY job with the confirmation class my daughter was in, and showed very poor human relations skills with many parishoners. She had us all fooled when she applied for the job, and when she showed up, we saw her true colors. The Vestry unanimously asked her to resign (in our diosese, at least, Vestries cannot "fire" priests), and she refused. The Vestry appealed to the Bishop who showed her the door, pronto. I am not in favor of women priests, too many messed-up, wall-flower women with problems, problems, problems they think religion will solve. Also many are on heavy leftwing political trips (ours sure was).

[foreverfree]

bump

[Revenge Of Daffy-Duck]

"my aunt and uncle keep insisting that I shouldn't worry... our church hasn't sent a delegate to this convention since they voted to change the prayer books...we're big and rich enough as a parish to to just ignore them...our bishop (Mark Sisk) voted to confirm Robinson, and they insisted that didn't matter either because our church pretty much ignores Mark Sisk all the time......"

No offense, but why do you, and the people who actually pay attention to the scripture have to hide-out in little parishes, hoping the Biship will leave them alone? Meanwhile the pseudo-religious people have taken over the main governing bodies of your church.

And you say your Aunt & Uncle find that acceptable, and encourage you to follow their example, and keep retreating?

I cannot get over hearing all the liberals on NPR chortleing about how the conservatives would complain a lot, but in the end they really would not do anything. They all seemed to think that the conservatives were just blow-hards, who would shuffle obediently back to their pews once their betters told them what to think.

I am not Episcopal, but I sympathize for what has become of your once-great church.

A great Catholic once said "Silence means consent."

For GOD's sake DO SOMETHING!

[hellinahandcart]

Do what exactly? If I leave my church, which is not heretical, merely to make a statement, I will have one hell of a time finding an acceptable alternative in New York City. Just about every church I pass by has the words "diverse, caring, and inclusive" displayed right out front, and you know what that means.

If our rector leaves the church, which is also a possibility, then the work and care of generations will almost certainly end up in the hands of people who will use it all to advance leftist politics, and will probably turn the choir school into a homeless shelter.

The only options for action are to stay or leave, and that's not a decision I'm going to make lightly. Or today.

[altura]

I totally agree with your last post.

One wonders about these people who blithely suggest that we leave our churches out of protest.

How many churches have they left in a snit? There is no perfect church and there is no use spending one's life searching for one.

And what about a commitment to the church? I don't take that lightly. How many committees have we worked on, altar guild duties have we done (how much what I call "ironing for God?") the youth programs, the Sunday School teaching. We have an investment in our individual churches that is not just financial.

I say we stay and fight (if our diocese stays in). Things change; pendulums swing back, but if all the conservatives leave, there will be no one to swing them back. Already, polls show a shift in tolerance levels for homosexual pushiness.

I hope enough diocese decide to pull out and make their intentions firm and unmistakeable that the National Church, faced with a loss of about one-third of membership and revenue, might re-think their callous dismissal of the conservative wing.

[hellinahandcart]

I am not very hopeful. I may very well have to leave as a matter of conscience. But I know also that leaving en masse means leaving it all to them. Putting tools in their hands with which to work iniquity. And that doesn't seem right either.

[AppyPappy]

Our local Episcopal priestess is a very good friend of Robinson's. It's a country club church.

[Revenge Of Daffy-Duck]

"The only options for action are to stay or leave, and that's not a decision I'm going to make lightly. Or today."

I commend your seriousness, which I never questioned. I apologize if it sounded that way.

As for your options, here is where I disagree again; there are many options! For instance, you can stay and hide like you parish has been doing, or you can stand and fight.

"If our rector leaves the church...then the work and care of generations will...end up in the hands of people who will use it all to advance leftist politics, and...turn the choir school into a homeless shelter"
Yes, but this is EXACTLY what has been happening to your denomination, while good people like your Aunt & Uncle thought 'Well, it doesn't effect us here.'

Stay and fight for what you know is right since you care about your denomination. But you better hurry before your hierarchy completes the transformation from Religion to Club for social activists.

I am sorry if that sounds angry or hurtful, but your church was one that I had a great deal of respect for, and it sickens me to see this happen. Good Luck, whatever you choose.

[Mobties]

I left my ECUSA church in Somers, NY out of conscience about three years ago and found a nearby Anglican church that uses the 1928 prayer book and 1940 hymnal I was raised on. It's been a wonderful experience for me. I've attached a link to the website of my new congregation http://www.churchoftheadvent.org/

[BooBoo1000]

Most of you people are missing the boat. You are confusing a heap of stones, and a lot of high sounding names as your way to salvation. Forget it. The only thing you should be interested in is your relation ship with God." God saves his friendship for those who reverence him"

I do not care if you are Presbyterian, Catholic, Church of Christ or what ever.belonging to a church is O.K as a demonstation to the public that your are attached to a like bunch of thinkers. But your main concern, should be to see to the preperation of your life to live for eternity with God. Period.All of this zigging and zagging about who has the most Bishops, and which church has the most money, these things are stumbling blocks placed in your way by the Devil. Get right with God. Work to please his, do things that make him smile. That is what you sould be devoting your life, ahead of all other things. "A life devoted to things is a dead life, a stump;a God shapaed life is a flourishing tree". Proverbs 11:28

[esopman]

"ICHABOD... There is NO FIELD beyond right and wrong."

Brilliant! You are not just to be complimented for your forthright language and truth-telling; you have spoken prophetically.

Ichabod means 'no glory' or 'where is the glory?' and has the implication that the Shekinah Glory of God has departed.

Indeed. The Episcopal Church is grieving the Holy Spirit and the Spirit is departing. I teach Sunday school in a Methodist church and we adhere to the full biblical gospel in our small conservative church - but that is anomalous within the larger UMC community. I see schism ahead on several fronts.

(PS. There is a field beyond right and wrong. It is called Hell.)

[oshma]

Yes, bishops should make more appearances around, and Bp. Taylor is a wonderful pastor. But think about this: 200+ parishes in the diocese [divided by] 52 Sundays--it's impossible for diocesan to show every year in every parish at their main service.

[hellinahandcart]

I don't care if I ever lay eyes on Bishop Mark or Bishop Catherine. In fact I would much rather not.

[Irene Adler]

Altura, I sure hope you do send this thread to Bishop Stanton.

Hello to Father Jim from Cedar Falls, Iowa. You had greatness in you when you were here; it was clear that you were destined for great things, and you are showing that, now. Have courage and do what you need to do. I wish I were in your diocese in Dallas. God bless you, Father Jim. I am praying for you and for your allies in this worthy effort to keep the Episcopal Church a Bible-based church. Thank you for what you are doing!