man arrest for detaining illegal immigrants

Yuma Sun ^ | LOUIE VILLALOBOS, Staff Writer

[John O]

How do you plan to kill them, John O? Set up 50 cals at the border and mow them down the instant they set foot on US soil?

I'm really more in favor of anti-personnel mines in a fifty foot buffer zone starting at the border and progressing inward to the fence (of course we lose a fifty foot wide swath of land for the zone). This allows us to secure the border without a prohibitive investment in personnel. and insures that the only ones who die are the ones actually attacking the border.

Of course any of these plans would have to be publicised in Mexico and Canada to prevent the stupid from having an excuse. " I didn't know I couldn't cross here. Wah Wah"

Round 'em up & put them in gas chambers?

Too hard to do. It's better to stop the infestation at the source. Of course illegals should be deported immediately. No trials, no warning, no going back for family or possessions. If we catch you we escort you immediately to the border and push you across (access zones through the minefield will have to be guarded I'm afraid).

Those who are caught illegally in this country twice would be flown to their country of origin and escorted off the plane (landing the plane is of course optional)

Electrify the border fence so if they touch it, they're immediately fried?

This is another idea that I find has great merit. It also lets us build a few really big nuke plants to power the fence (and as an added benefit piss off the environazis)

Failing a land mine buffer or electrical fence (both together are a great idea though), I would favor 50 cals in overlapping fields of fire.

How about the solution Iraq used on the Kurds--just gas 'em in their villages before they can get to US soil?

This would be an act of war and cannot be done. The USA is only an agressor nation when crooked democrats (redundant I know) hold the presidency.

[Once-Ler]

You brought it up again. It is nitpicking.

I checked gallup.com (FreeRepublic is a conservative forum and not indicative of average voters) The home page has no references to immigration. The site search for "immigration" yielded 62 hits but every "hit" I checked led to a blurb about a poll analysis and immigration is not mentioned at all. There is a link for premium members but I'm not interested in paying for any information from Gallup. Perhaps you can come up with some proof that is a little more substantial. Probably not.

Your assertion is that immigration is a big issue to the American people and politicians best beware. I say you're wrong and you have offered exactly zero evidence to back up your claim.

[AZ GRAMMY]

Border incident interests citizens' group

By Louie Villalobos, Staff Writer
Aug 12, 2003

Using the Yuma case of two men arrested for allegedly holding illegal immigrants at gunpoint as its coming-out party, a newly formed citizens' group is promising to sue two Yuma County departments and come to Arizona with an "army" ready to patrol the Mexican border.

Keith French, spokesman for the newly incorporated U.S. Special Service, said his Missouri-based organization intends to sue the Yuma County Sheriff's Office and the Yuma County Attorney's Office for what he called the unlawful arrest and detention of Matthew Hoffman and Alexander Dumas.

"We have adopted these men," French said.

Both men are accused of detaining six illegal immigrants at gunpoint July 31 in Gadsden until U.S. Border Patrol agents arrived.

Each is facing six counts of aggravated assault, five counts of unlawful imprisonment and one count of conspiracy to commit unlawful imprisonment following the incident.

In an e-mailed declaration sent to the county attorney's office, the sheriff's office and The Sun, the U.S. Special Service accuses both departments of violating the suspects' civil rights by arresting them for doing something permitted by the law.

"People are allowed to arrest someone they see commit a crime," French said. "And entering illegally is a crime."

French said the use of handcuffs and guns on the illegal immigrants by Hoffman and Dumas falls under justification for use of force in defense of property.

Though officials said the area where the incident occurred — County 18th Street and the Colorado River — is technically federal property, French contends the entire United States is the property of every American, which makes it legal for citizens to defend it against "the invasion of illegal immigrants."

A statement released Monday by Sheriff Ralph Ogden states he recognizes the frustrations surrounding current immigration policies and said citizens may assist in the apprehension of anyone violating the law.

But the statement goes one to "warn any individual assuming that responsibility that such arrests must be done in accordance with applicable state and federal laws and that failure to do so may result in their being charged with a violation of the law."

The department has said that detaining someone against their will, even if they have broken the law, is illegal and goes beyond what a citizen's arrest allows.

French said his organization had been looking at federal laws regarding private citizens' patrols when Hoffman and Dumas were arrested, and said the case is the perfect one for his group to announce itself with.

He said his group plans to help family members with the defense of their loved ones, but is urging both the county attorney's office and the sheriff's office to drop the charges and release Hoffman and Dumas. If not, French said his organization will seek alternative means to have the men freed.

"Sometimes you've got to fight fire with fire," he said. "They can take that however the hell they want."

A second demand in the e-mailed declaration is the resignation of Yuma County Attorney Patricia Orozco, who French said is pursuing the case because her Hispanic descent has caused her to take the incident personally.

For her part, Orozco said that her office pursuing the case has nothing to do with her Hispanic heritage and everything to do with the law. She said her staff didn't do anything different on this case than it has in previous cases or will do with future ones.

"Our standard is whether there is a reasonable likelihood of a conviction at trial," she said. "We found that there was sufficient evidence for us to bring charges and we did."

Also targeted by French's group are the illegal immigrants that cross through Arizona on a daily basis. French said he intends to bring an "army" to the Arizona-Mexico border in the near future that will be armed and ready to detain illegal immigrants.

He said plans are in the works for the group to come to the Arizona border and tour the area for possible locations for a base camp. French said the camp will most likely be in the Tucson area but that he intends to visit Yuma to check on the Hoffman-Dumas case and illegal immigrant activity.

Unlike the other citizens' group working near Tucson — which tends to stay on private land — French said his organization will also patrol federal land and public property. Yuma County's border with Mexico is largely federal land, officials have said.

"The United States government's land is the people's land," he said. "And we will function on that property."

--
Louie Villalobos can be reached at lvillalobos@yumasun.com or 539-6858.

http://yumasun.com/artman/publish/a...tory_6677.shtml

[KEVLAR]

Listen pinhead,
you have accused people of being racist for expressing an opinion. I do not owe you anything, least of that which can be easily proven. You clearly have an agenda in this issue. In which case, no amount of proof will suffice, as you are here only to agitate.
Let me know when you have finished "discrediting" the below sources.

http://www.npg.org/immpoll.html
From the above...
"Americans agree (85%) that illegal immigration is a “serious” problem, and over half (55%) say it is “very serious.”"

http://www.mnforsustain.org/mn_immg_poll_1st_district_oct99.htm

http://www.immigrationcontrol.com/AIC_Zogby_Mexican_Poll.htm

http://www.worldviews.org/detailreports/usreport/public_topline_report.pdf

http://www.worldviews.org/detailreports/usreport/leaders_topline_report.pdf

http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/qtr1_2003/1217-100.html

http://suppressednews.com/newsitems/national/EppEykpEypVbDSjtuC.html

From the above...
"* When asked whether the government was doing enough to control the border and screen those allowed into the country, 76 percent said the government was not doing enough and only 19 percent said the government was doing
enough. While self-identified conservatives were the most likely to think not enough was being done (83 percent), 74 percent of liberals and 75 percent of moderates also indicated that enforcement was insufficient. In addition, by a margin of more than two to one, blacks, whites, and
Hispanics all thought government efforts at border control and vetting of immigrants were inadequate."

And lastly....
http://www.fairus.org/html/04120604.htm

Nitpicking? Whatever, I stand by the statement. Your cluelessness regarding the meaning notwithstanding.

[Catspaw]

So your solution is "kill 'em all" because they're "enemy combatants," yet a real enemy combatant, dirty bomb suspect Jose Padilla, is in a brig somewhere. Should he have been killed by Customs as soon as he got off the plane in Chicago? And if yes, by whom?

[Publius6961]

Hmmmmm.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the right of trial by jury "not negotiable"?

Slam dunk.

[John O]

Should he have been killed by Customs as soon as he got off the plane in Chicago?

I'm unfamiliar with the case but I'll go out on a limb and state that he should never have been allowed in the country. (Assuming he was on an inbound flight from a foreign land.)

He should have been ejected as soon as his crime was known. Just chuck him out the cargo hatch and let him face the odds by himself.

If he's not a citizen then he's an enemy combatant and different rules apply.

[Catspaw]

You're not familiar with al Qaeda dirty bomb suspect Jose Padilla? See, like al Qaeda member John Walker Lindh, he's a US citizen. Padilla is accused of actively plotting to set off a dirty bomb in a US city. He was arrested in Chicago. He's now sitting in a brig, perhaps in South Carolina, but that's not confirmed. He's probably going to face a military tribunal for being an enemy combatant--and he's alleged to be a REAL enemy combatant.

However, thanks for sharing your Final Solution.

[Catspaw]

Oh, did forget to ask you about Cubans--should the Coast Guard be allowed to machine gun them if they're still at sea? And should we knock them off (in one of the methods you suggest) if they manage to reach land?

[Cultural Jihad]

If they are attempting to cross the border then they are no longer woman and children but enemy combatants. Killing an enemy combatant is never murder. Whether they are armed or not is immaterial, weapons are easy to acquire and terrorism is far to easy to carry out.

Killing unarmed women and children is not murder? Are speeders and jaywalkers "enemy combatants" worthy of being shot and shoveled into shallow graves since they commit misdemeanors, too?

Your grotesque parody might play well among the loons at DU, but real conservatives renounce and denounce your words of hate and violence.

[Cultural Jihad]

>> Round 'em up & put them in gas chambers?

> Too hard to do. It's better to stop the infestation at the source.

Would the paleo-neanderthals and crypto-DU trolls suggest holding and burning the Constitution under their feet just for good measure?

[FITZ]

California's problems are not because of illegals.

LAPD

[CWOJackson]

Why stop with just murdering the women and children. We could do like they used to do with coyotes; hang the dead ones on fences to serve as warning to the remainder.

The sad thing is there are a few people around who would like that idea apparently.

[FITZ]

You think over 75% of the entire LA population is comprised of illegal immigrants.

Check the link I just posted ---- how many of LA's criminals are immigrants versus long-time Americans?

[breakem]

Do the moderators ever get tired of your addressing them or do you get paid a bounty?

[FITZ]

I don't like the fact that people are coming across the border and being labeled as criminals. I'd prefer to see this problem solved with a program like Dubya has proposed. Amnesty for working families, expanding legal immigration, free-trade and promoting business in Mexico, but lastly cracking down on businesses who hire illegals,and stronger enforcement of the borders.

All the people coming across the border aren't bad guys ---- but Mexico really does have a very serious crime problem and nothing stops the worst criminals from just coming on over. There is also high unemployment in many areas of this country --- along the border it's double digit and it's hard to justify bringing in millions of low skilled uneducated people and their families when we're sending out millions of low skilled jobs.

Mexico is a very wealthy country with vast oil reserves and natural resources ----- we don't need to solve all their problems ---and we can't as long as they choose to keep their corrupt political system and culture. They need to make some serious changes ----and then they wouldn't need to be parasites on the US ---- there's no good reason for the way things are over there.

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

You can post a "Most Wanted" link for any large city, they all look like the LA one.

[FITZ]

I know ---- or at least it is getting that way. Current immigration policies aren't doing anything about keeping the criminal class of Mexico out of this country. Check the crime statistics of Ciudad Juarez or Mexico City --- they've got a serious skyrocketing crime problem ---- almost out of control ---- right now the Mexican government has sent hundreds of federales up to Juarez in an attempt to do something about store clerks being blown away on a daily basis. And the murder of young women in that city is a national disgrace. Americans are very naive who think the criminals are staying in Mexico and only the harmless are coming over the border.

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

I guess Giuliani is in over his head?

Seriously, this has to have something to do with kids growing up with the father absent(in the US).

I just read that the hispanic out of wedlock rate has surpassed the black rate, so I think we have a problem.

[FITZ]

I guess Giuliani is in over his head?

I think so --- there needs to be some pretty deep changes in that society before they become right.

A while back there was a panel discussion broadcast from Juarez which was quite interesting ---they (all Mexicans and no one was playing any race card) were discussing the problems of their city ---- massive migration with overburdened hospitals and schools, destitute people moving in with too few jobs and all low paying jobs, skyrocketing crime. One of the panel members said massive migration is instability. It results from instability and leads to instability. You've got people with no family or neighborhood support, cut off from their roots and hometowns, families broken apart and all the rest. Interestingly too ---they discussed the cultural changes to a small northern town that had it's own culture being invaded by hundreds of thousands coming from other places (in Mexico but those places are culturally different). It's the same thing we're seeing here --- massive migration of people really isn't a good thing.