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To: adam_az
I do defend Pius but I don't defend everything he did. Mortara shouldn't have been taken away and I'm glad he returned to his family later (although I've read they rejected him). Personally I fail to see what is accomplished by beating this 140 year old dead horse.

I defend Pius' stances against liberalism and communism and his shepherding of the church. David I. Kertzer seems to be a guy with an ax to grind. "The Popes Against the Jews: The Vatican's Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism" is a title meant to engender hate and I'm not surprized it comes from an Ivy league liberal. If the Vatican really promoted anti-semitism it would have been seen in every Catholic population in the world. You can claim this if you like but it's not true.
192 posted on 07/31/2003 9:54:50 AM PDT by Varda
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To: Varda
Actually the child met with his parents again as a late teenager, then a month later became a Catholic monk or priest or whatever it's called, and later reconciled with his family.

David Kertzner based his book on writings from the Catholic Church archives, he is fluent in Italian (and I believe reads latin) and the book has a large bibliography.

Considering the history of the Catholic church towards Jews, including ghettos, wearing colored badges, forced conversion, burning at the stake, kidnappings, inquisitions, and expulsions from Catholic countries, I would say that at least many members of the Church weren't the nicest of guys. Spain was among the worst offenders. Some popes were better than others, and some were worse, but many of the deeds were done in the name of the Church.

If you are curious to read about specific examples, you might want to read about the Spanish "Marranos," or forced Jewish converts to Catholicism.

A lot of Catholic antipathy towards Jews is a result of Catholic replacement theology - Christians see themselves as having a "new covenant," and having Jews still around following the "old covenant" wasn't viewed favorably.

193 posted on 07/31/2003 10:21:16 AM PDT by adam_az
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