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To: RightWhale
"America is fine"
You said it, and that was kinda my point. We will figure it out, we always do. There is no sense in fighing market forces (it is nonsense actually). America is no good at legislating solutions to issues like this, we are good at coming up with whole new industries that will employ the clever people who were formally programmers.
My other point is that as a business owner am I supposed to feel some moral obligation to hiring overpriced Americans when I can get the same product cheaper by outsourcing? That makes no sense to me.
13 posted on 07/30/2003 3:41:15 PM PDT by just_living (America is fine,)
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To: just_living
as a business owner am I supposed to feel some moral obligation to hiring overpriced Americans when I can get the same product cheaper by outsourcing?

No. The business environment is evolving. A business must always look to find cheaper sources of office supplies without compromising quality, one example. Adapt or eventually take down the sign over the storefront. There is a moral obligation to succeed in business so long as it benefits the society that supports it. The society is becoming worldwide thanks to modern communications, so there is the community, it's worldwide.

15 posted on 07/30/2003 3:49:47 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: just_living
My other point is that as a business owner am I supposed to feel some moral obligation to hiring overpriced Americans when I can get the same product cheaper by outsourcing?

Since most of your customers will be here, if they have no jobs, you have no customers, therefore no income and finally, no business.

No offense intended, but expand your horizons slightly and look at a bigger picture and you will see things beyond your nose that will affect you down the road.

Picture an economy dominated by people working at Wal-Mart for $5 an hour selling foreign-made goods.

Now picture your business operating in that setting where the vast majority of people are minimum-wage workers and your business is being taxed up the wazoo to cover "entitlements."

While I agree most union shops and fresh grads who think they can demand dot-com wages in a sagging economy need to think again -- look at the overall picture and you'll see that an economy that produces nothing will not survive.

On the flip side, if the American Consumer, who has been propping up the global economy stops consuming, well....we know where that will lead (1931) don't we?

Hence, I'm concerned about the overall picture as opposed to the minutia, but even that starts to add up after a while.

20 posted on 07/30/2003 3:59:47 PM PDT by superloser
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To: just_living
responding to trolls is just lame... but here goes..

the products will not get any cheaper then they already are. do you honestly think you would pay less then $30 for a video game? less then $80 for desktop publishing? sheesh... even some of it is free. don't you realize the savings go directly to the shareholders and the execs in the form of bonuses.

if your frontal lobes did more then support your enlarged brow, you would realize that the software industry pays less in production to revenue costs then almost any other industry. the vast majority of the costs associated with producing a winning product is the marketing costs. development is often times less then 25% of the startup costs, and the support costs are normally minimal. meanwhile, marketing can sometimes exceed 50% of the overall cost of the product for the first year.

i dont hear anyone saying that the marketing companies are overpaid. nope. that's because most people have absolutely no idea wtf they are talking about. here's a little insight. there are roughly 230 nielsen markets in the US. Advertising on a normal channel during a normal time on a semi popular show could easily run your company $5,000 for 30 seconds. To advertise in the top 20 markets, which is not even 10% of the overall market, would exceed $100,000 for that single 30 second spot. And what do these people do for this money that deserves to be paid over $600,000/hr? They broadcast a signal, support a few towers, and support some video equipment. is it worth that? hardly.

the person that says that a developer with over 15 years experience isn't worth the $50,000 ($50/hr in 6 months) to develop the software that will produce over 50,000 sales in 2 years @ $100 a copy, obviosuly has no idea what the hell they are talking about. (that's $2.5 million per year for the mathematically challenged)

67 posted on 07/30/2003 10:04:36 PM PDT by sten
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