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Bush, Republicans losing support of retired veterans
Knight Ridder ^ | 07-28-03

Posted on 07/28/2003 7:32:04 AM PDT by Brian S

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To: nmh
"Their medical care sucks at V.A. Hospitals and MOST must pay for their own insurance because of this and money is not easily found by them for this. We really have screwed the Vet." NO SHIT, DIPSHIT!

I've been a Vet since '66 and it is no worse today than it was in '66. YOUR "Blame it on Bush" shit is just so much BS!

461 posted on 07/29/2003 7:35:58 AM PDT by harpu
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Comment #462 Removed by Moderator

To: Nick Danger
LOL
463 posted on 07/29/2003 7:57:01 AM PDT by Notforprophet (A leg of lamb, a jug of wine, and thou! Alone together, whistling in the darkness.)
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To: VRWC_minion
If you want to know the real truth about TRICARE you will not get from a DOD website. Go to this one instead, this is written by real beneficiaries of TRICARE:

http://rebel.212.net/mhcrg/MRGRGwhitepaper.htm
464 posted on 07/29/2003 8:39:58 AM PDT by caboonia
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To: Retired_Disabled_Military
Stereo-typing us as welfare recipients kind off chaffs our hides

The descendants of my ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War still receive their gov't stipend. I believe it is $12 per year for each of 8 families. They all vote Democrat.

465 posted on 07/29/2003 9:07:16 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Squantos; Fred Mertz
Fred Mertz - This Rummy guy is a major part of the problem. I haven't paid a dime to Tricare and don't plan to either. I'll just die young.
exodus - Rumsfeld is a flunky. Rumsfeld only does or says things that he has permission to do or say. President Bush is the one who said he would veto veteran benefits if Congress passed them, just as Bush is the one who said he would sign a bill to extend the "assault weapon" ban.
Squantos - Hmmmmm ???........my secret decoder ring must be busted.....splain dat for me again if ya have the time. Stay Safe !

***************

Sure, Squantos.

I mean that Rumsfeld is not in charge. His position is as a follower of his political leader, not as the one who makes the decisions. Fred Mertz said that Rumsfeld was a problem; I pointed out that Rumsfeld is just following orders.

Rumsfeld serves at the pleasure of Bush.

Rumsfeld does not do or say anything that would anger his boss.

466 posted on 07/29/2003 10:00:31 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
OK.....understand now. But I have to say that I believe that the singular mistake being made right now buy this administration is that they are passing laws and EO's that in the hands of adults who will use them responsibly is OK but they assume that this nation will never experience another Clintonista regime and with that understood we are treading on thin ice. The next band of sedition bent polidiots in office will use such power to put the last nail in the constitutions coffin IMHO.

Rummy aside the founders knew such would occur but each pack of power mongers thinks they have a better way..............

Stay Safe

467 posted on 07/29/2003 10:11:49 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: RightWhale
"The descendants of my ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War still receive their gov't stipend. I believe it is $12 per year for each of 8 families. They all vote Democrat."

Horse Puckey. They must have been American Indians, or a mercenary. A couple of dozen pensioners from the Spanish-American War are the oldest living recipients (about $900 anually) of veteran benefits. They all vote the Bull-Moose party ticket....
468 posted on 07/29/2003 10:55:45 AM PDT by Retired_Disabled_Military
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To: Retired_Disabled_Military
They must have been American Indians, or a mercenary

It's public record. They still receive the stipends. Massachusetts and New York.

469 posted on 07/29/2003 11:09:05 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: jwalsh07
"Thanks for your service but I'm not buying it. I think a law that treats military retirees differently from civiliann federal retirees is a stupid law."

But that's the whole point!! We are already treated quite diffeently than civilian federal employees! We have fewer and poorer benefits, and while on active duty, much lower pay and at times abhorent living conditions.

Give us the same benefits as Federal Employees get, and this issue goes away.

My father is retired military, and my mother is retired from the postal service. They use my mother's Federal Employee Healthcare Benefit Program over my father's Tricare benefits because almost no doctor's where they live accept Tricare, and the Federal Employee benefits are much broader. (I can tell you about veteran's that think Tricare is the best thing since sliced bread, but they invariably live in an area with a large veteran population).
470 posted on 07/29/2003 11:49:07 AM PDT by Retired_Disabled_Military
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To: VRWC_minion
I don't know what your point is by posting all this Tricare stuff. I live it in first person.

In the Dallas area doctor's don't accept new Tricare patients, if they take them at all. I can drive 30 miles and get a doctor for me, but I can't even do that for my wife and children

You might as well tell me that moon rocks sell for over a million dollars an ounce, and show me the moon in the sky.

Veterans can't benefit from healthcare if it's not available in their area, and for about 50% of them, it's not available because Tricare only pays about 30 cents on the dollar for doctors fees.
471 posted on 07/29/2003 12:04:37 PM PDT by Retired_Disabled_Military
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To: RightWhale
"It's public record. They still receive the stipends. Massachusetts and New York."

Then it's not a federal benefit. Kind of a non-sequitor, don't you think?
472 posted on 07/29/2003 12:11:51 PM PDT by Retired_Disabled_Military
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To: Retired_Disabled_Military
Sure, it's Federal. They live in Mass and NY.
473 posted on 07/29/2003 12:21:05 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale
"Sure, it's Federal. They live in Mass and NY.

Now you're being disingenuous and deliberately obtuse.

You're not going to rattle a hard-core conservative/Republican like myself, but it is off the cuff, dismissive remarks that drive the fence sitters to vote Democrat, fearing the callousness of the far right wing and and presumed shallowness of conservatives in general.
474 posted on 07/29/2003 12:43:10 PM PDT by Retired_Disabled_Military
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To: Retired_Disabled_Military
The heirs receive the Federal stipend for service in the Revolutionary War. They were also given a few acres of farmland that they still farm. The stipend doesn't go as far as it used to, but do they complain? No.
475 posted on 07/29/2003 12:50:53 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Retired_Disabled_Military
it's not available because Tricare only pays about 30 cents on the dollar for doctors fees.

Whent the "promise" was made I assume most people didn't have coverage for doctors, only major medical. When I was a kid 30 years ago my mom worked for a GP and no one had insurance for his services. Assuming that the promise made applied to all medical including dental is a stretch isn't it ?

476 posted on 07/29/2003 1:07:14 PM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: VRWC_minion
"Whent the "promise" was made I assume most people didn't have coverage for doctors, only major medical. When I was a kid 30 years ago my mom worked for a GP and no one had insurance for his services. Assuming that the promise made applied to all medical including dental is a stretch isn't it?"

We are kind of mixing two issues. But they blur together unless you are actively following them

The first issue, is Tricare which is riddled with problems, unless you live in an area with plenty of military around, then it is a pretty good deal.
But MANY retired people using Tricare wind up paying the doctor out of pocket and then get reimbursed from Tricare for only 30-40% of the bill, because the doctors won't accept the Tricare 'assignment'.

The second issue is the one about "promised free lifetime healthcare". There is no doubt that complete and universal healthcare was promised to WWII and Korean era veterans. It's in writing, but the courts found these written promises not to be binding on the government. Plus, these veterans were given this type of healthcare from 1947 until 1995. Any reasonable person would conclude that this type of healthcare was what was promised, after all, it is what ALL retirees were getting. One could see it everytime you went to the base hospital.
Then they went through 2 rounds of base closures, and a lot of base hospitals closed their doors. To top that off, Clinton told the over 65 retirees that they couldn't even go to the open bases/hospitals for treatment anymore. One day you can go to Walter Reed or Bethesda if you have a life threatening problem, the next you are persona non grata at ANY Military Treatment Facility.
The WWII vets took this to court, and after 5 years won a favorable decision, that their rights were unconstitutionally taken away.

Where Bush garners the ire of veterans is that he let the Justice Department appeal the decision, instead of just restoring what the WWII veterans had for decades, but Clinton took away.

I'm not a WWII or Korean vet, and I have nothing personal to gain, but these men have been wronged by the last two administrations.
477 posted on 07/29/2003 2:58:53 PM PDT by Retired_Disabled_Military
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To: Retired_Disabled_Military
I guess I'm still missing the main gripe. If the retired military is receiving medical care paid for by either TriCare, Medicare or by using military hospitals, how does that break the promise of free health care for life.

Second, at the time the promise was made, no one but no one considered that any insurance plan would cover anything but major medical. Were the vets at the time under the impression that they would never have to spend a dime on any health care costs ? Not even aspirin ? I'm finding that a bit hard to swallow.

From what I have gotten from thsi discussion is that the Gov't had provided health care as promised. Its just not as good as what current vets want. It might be the best plan in the world but yet its not good enough, is that about it ?

478 posted on 07/29/2003 3:15:20 PM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: VRWC_minion
The Retired Military were promised health care. They kept their part of the bargain, they earned it.

It boils down to if you can't find a doctor who will see you under TRICARE then you have no healthcare. If you can't use an Military Treatment Facility because there is no space available, you have no healthcare. Also while they were on active duty their pay was low, it was always cited to them that the benefits of healthcare after retirement was part of the reason. It was called "Deferred Compensation". Well they got low pay, now they are having a hard time getting healthcare they earned. One thing must be pointed out it was under Clinton that Tricare came into being. Prior to Clinton there was a very good healthcare plan called CHAMPUS. They keep saying that TRICARE is like CHAMPUS, it is not. CHAMPUS worked, it was also cheaper to run, TRICARE is a for profit driven program run by contractors. There is money to be made in Military Healthcare, problem is it doesn't get used on the patients.

President Bush campaigned on "A promise made is a promise kept" he sought out the Retired Military and solicited their support with saying he understood their plight and would help. So far he hasn't kept his part of the bargain. That's why so many are upset.
479 posted on 07/29/2003 3:37:10 PM PDT by caboonia
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To: caboonia
It is your claim that no retired military are receiving health care ?
480 posted on 07/29/2003 3:52:55 PM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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