Posted on 07/24/2003 1:55:39 PM PDT by Mr.Atos
I was just lisening to Medved debating Creationism with Athiests on the air. I found it interesting that while Medved argued his side quite effectively from the standpoint of faith, his opponents resorted to condescension and beliitled him with statements like, "when it rains, is that God crying?" I was reminded of the best (at least most amusing)debate that I have ever heard on the subject of Creationism vs Evolution, albeit a fictional setting. It occurred on the show, Friends of all places between the characters Pheobe (The Hippy) and Ross (The Paleontologist). It went like this...
Pheebs: Okay...it's very faint, but I can still sense him in the building...GO INTO THE LIGHT MR. HECKLES!!
Ross: Whoa, whoa, whoa. What, uh, you don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: Nah. Not really. Ross: You don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: I don't know. It's just, ya know, monkeys, Darwin, ya know, it's a, it's a nice story. I just think it's a little too easy.
Ross: Uh, excuse me. Evolution is not for you to buy, Phoebe. Evolution is scientific fact. Like, like, the air we breathe, like gravity... Pheebs: Uh, okay, don't get me started on gravity.
Ross: You uh, you don't believe in gravity? Pheebs: Well, it's not so much that ya know, like I don't *believe* in it, ya know. It's just...I don't know. Lately I get the feeling that I'm not so much being pulled down, as I am being pushed.
Ross: How can you NOT BELIEVE in evolution? Pheebs: [shrugs] I unh-huh...Look at this funky shirt!!
Ross: Well, there ya go. Pheebs: Huh. So now, the REAL question is: who put those fossils there, and why...?
Ross: OPPOSABLE THUMBS!! Without evolution, how do YOU explain OPPOSABLE THUMBS?!? Pheebs: Maybe the overlords needed them to steer their spacecrafts!
Pheebs: Uh-oh! Scary Scientist Man!
Pheebs: Okay, Ross? Could you just open your mind like, *this* much?? Okay? Now wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the Earth was flat? And up until what, like, fifty years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess o' crap came out! Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny, tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?!?
Pheebs: I can't believe you caved. Ross: What? Pheebs: You just ABANDONED your whole belief system! I mean, before, I didn't agree with you, but at least I respected you. Ross: But uh.. Pheebs: Yeah...how...how are you gonna go in to work tomorrow? How...how are you gonna face the other science guys? How...how are you gonna face yourself? Oh! [Ross runs away dejected] Pheebs: That was fun. So who's hungry?
Mysteriously, this is true. I lurked for a year before registering. I personally know a couple dozen people who visit here who haven't even registered. They're afarid to have information about themselves on the internet.
I don't know anyone personally who is registered that doesn't post, but periodically you can see people dropping in on these threads that aren't usually around, to drop in a naive comment or two.
Oh? Is that how it works? So if I try this tactic, do you promise that you and yours won't whine?
Now I can veil provocation by simply not attaching anyone's name to it?....And I get immunity, right? Tell me, did you learn that from a Liberal? Your games are completely transparent....
Since we're insulting one another's intelligence... Maybe the only reason NewLand pinged you to his post was to flatter you.
I'm of the opinion that science did have something to do with it. But I agree that Church politics were also looming large in the Galileo affair. Galileo threatened a popular appeal to the people that the church was powerless to overcome. Galileo comes up once in a while and I don't stand "pat" with some of the other science-minded on FR on that issue.
OR if someone hollers: "Watch out for the pickpockets!" on a subway train, and a small group of people respond by saying: "I'm offended by that remark!" would you stand in front of them without putting your hand on your wallet?
I've been fascinated for weeks with the compelling, repeated, and frequent acts of self-incrimination with regard to trolling, when none of my comments ever specified who the trolls were. But by their own self-incriminating responses, we now know that deep down, they know what they are doing is trolling.
I think this is part of the discussion. This is a regular tactic on the part of the anti-evolution crowd. Just look a couple of posts up at f.Christian's remarks. Saying I'm not a Christian? Saying I'm not a conservative? Saying all I've ever posted are personnel attacks?
Worse than the personnel attacks is watching Christians feeding on one another. It's not supposed to be this way and it's definately wrong no matter which Bible one reads.
I will say that this is one of the weirder threads I've ever seen. But a very interesting "evolution" of the forum. I wonder if we'll be successful at self-policing? I personally believe that if you two "philosophy sisters" can't do it, it can't be done. ;)
These people are a detriment to this website, and to the Conservative cause. Please carefully note who these people are and DO NOT respond to them.
Let the charges be laid.
**Have a nice day PLACEMARKER**
Back in '02, you made a spelling error that you didn't correct. I admit that I've been holding a grudge against you ever since.
How about the time you dunked little Alice's braids in the inkwell? Go ahead, defend yourself!
That's at least two us who believe this. I would go further and say that monsters in general have no interest in ideas at all, but simply do focus groups to determine what ideology will promote their hold on power. This can differ from place to place and decade to decade.
It is a mistake on both sides, however, to think their ideas can't be hijacked.
Now I offer this as an olive branch, risking being creamed by my own "side": Right now, the only legal public ideology in America is science, so that is the ideology being appealed to by statists of all kinds, not because anything they advocate will improve life, but because it helps them consolodate power. I can see how evolution can be seen as a symbol of all the excesses of social engineering in public schools.
Here's one review of a very good book on the subject
http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Issues/science/HIGHER7.html
And here's an old friend some of you will recognize
http://access.digex.com/~medved/Catastrophism.html
You have to stand on your head, hold your breath, and read through 25,000 letters to accumulate a few scraps of ethnocentric mumblings from Darwin, yet "social darwinism" and eugenics did rule the roost for a few decades.
It's just silly to blame ideas for behavior. No Western religion has ever placed such an explicit prohibition on violence and vengence as Christianity, but it didn't seem to prohibit. Ideas seem to melt away in the face of desire.
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