Date Limit Set On First Americans

BBC ^ | 7-22-2003 | Paul Rincon

[jocon307]

Wow, great links. Thanks guys, for seeking to educate me and impart pure information, just because I made a silly joke.

I did used to want to be an archeologist when I was pretty little. I guess I'm glad I didn't chose that path, but there is soooo much controversy in the field, maybe I should have gone for it. Nothing like an old bone to pick. (Sorry for that really bad joke, but you know, I couldn't resist).

The article about Dr. Sandford was particularly intersting, it is true, people do sometimes make extraordinary sea journeys by ACCIDENT!

I'm glad Kennewick man hasn't been consigned to the bone yard, is he safe for sure yet?

[Bernard Marx]

Blam, my mind is clouded a bit by Cabernet and I'm tired, but this seems like a bit more BBS.

Most of us who have studied much about this think it's likely a migration by boat occurred 30,000+ years ago and leapfrogged to Mesoamerica and South America because of the inhospitable North American climate during the glacial period. Certainly Siberian nomads crossed the Bering Strait at a later date, populating the now ice-free north. They would certainly carry the Asian haploid.

How does the writer define "America?" He mentions Monte Verde but doesn't cite any direct evidence of haploid studies from South America. The "Native American" study seems restricted to North America only unless I missed something in the article. If so it's only natural he'd find the evidence he cites. Add the fact that migrations probably occurred in pulses, over time, and this "evidence" seems a lot more suspect to me. But maybe it's just the Cabernet.

[blam]

Yup. The BBC is just spouting the academic party line, they left out a lot.

'First Americans Were Australians' ...also from the BBC.

[TexanToTheCore]

"Most of us who have studied much about this think it's likely a migration by boat occurred 30,000+ years ago and leapfrogged to Mesoamerica and South America"...

We have also have concluded that Archaeologists do not own boats. They are not sailors and they don't have a clue as to the mobility of a culture that is based upon boats and shoreline activities. I suspect that there were many routes that were filled with boats in prehistory, and one of them may have been the Bering strait.

I also think it is likely that Europeans found their way to these shores very early, whether it was due to accident or intent.

"Sailors sail: That's what they do because that's who they are."

[Bernard Marx]

It's interesting that one of the oldest human remains found in North America turned up on one of the Channel Islands off the California coast -- maybe 40 miles from where I sit as I write this. What were Very Early People doing out in the Channel Islands? And why did the Chumash Indians have such sophisticated boats? There are petroglyphs of an amazing Chumash boat rescue just a few miles from where I am right now.

Blam, did you catch the National Geographic piece last week or the week before about the migration from South Africa to Australia via India? I think it was NG - may have been Discover. Whichever, I want to get a videotape. This was due to ocean levels receding due to heavy glaciation. It's beginning to make a lot of sense to me.

[blam]

"It's interesting that one of the oldest human remains found in North America turned up on one of the Channel Islands off the California coast "

'Arlington Springs Woman',13,000 Year Old Human Skeleton, California Island

This skeleton will beat out Luzia as the oldest skeleton ever found in anywhere in the Americas.

"Blam, did you catch the National Geographic piece last week or the week before about the migration from South Africa to Australia via India? I think it was NG - may have been Discover."

No, I missed that one. It'll be back.

[blam]

You ought to read this book, Earlier Than You Think, by Dr George Carter. You'd be amazed at all the things found in your area by this guy.

[thegreatbeast]

Just as we found that carbon dating isn't the be-all and end-all of dating materials, it is similarly way too early to claim that title for any DNA gobbledygook. Don't mean to offend you earthlings but your science is primitive compared to....whoops, nevermind!

[Bernard Marx]

Just as we found that carbon dating isn't the be-all and end-all of dating materials...

Hell, I always thought Tanqueray martinis straight up were the finest dating material known to man.

[Auntie Dem]

I'm obviosuly not a geneticist, and may have misunderstood some of the "facts" of the article, but why would only the DNA of the Asians that migrated to the Americas mutate? Wouldn't the DNA of the Asians that stayed behind mutate the same way?

It seems to me what happened is the Asians that migrated to the Americas interbred with others who were either already here, or came later. That combination with a completely different line of DNA contributed more to the change in the "Asian" DNA than did mutations.

[longtermmemmory]

Does this mean all europeans are entitled to have casinos now.

BLACKJACK!

[blam]

"I'm glad Kennewick man hasn't been consigned to the bone yard, is he safe for sure yet?"

Safe for now, I believe the case is back in court on appeal though.

[blam]

"That combination with a completely different line of DNA contributed more to the change in the "Asian" DNA than did mutations."

I think we probably have numerous cases of 'founders effect.'

[SunkenCiv]

Already added this to the GGG homepage, not pinging the list, just posting links to the GGG.

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[SunkenCiv]

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