[Cathryn Crawford]

Hmmmm...I don't think that Bush is so stupid as to be manipulated in such a way.

[optimistically_conservative]

quebecois makes a good point, historically, and there is little doubt that the "vision" thing in foreign affairs has largely centered around the philosophy and perceptions expressed a decade ago in PNAC by those now in the administration.

The strength of this administration, IMHO, has less to do with the intellectual fortitude of GWB to fend off neoconservative indoctrination, but the intellectual strength of Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc. to provide the President with equally powerful points of view based on the same set of facts. In a way, I envy GWB the opportunity to interact with this group and decide between and among their courses of action.

I expect to hear more "He Knew" and "Bush Lied" attacks leading up to the heat of the election season, especially if the market continues to improve and if the unemployment trend turns downward. With that expectation, every screed along those lines will be viewed cynically. The only last "doom and gloom" issue left the Democrats will be the difficulties in Iraq. Propagandizing Iraq into Vietnam for political purposes will p*ss me off. I can only hope it infuriates the majority of the voting public as well.

[Amelia]

Hmmmm...I don't think that Bush is so stupid as to be manipulated in such a way.

But wasn't that the entire premise of this thread? That either Bush was dishonest and hiding behind Tenet, or that he was so stupid he did get manipulated into making such a mistake?

If Bush can truly claim to know absolutely nothing, then don't we have a serious problem - wouldn't that imply that Bush is either incompetent or is simply not paying attention?

For discussion purposes - has Bush been conned by Tenet? And if he has, isn't that rather serious?

And if he wasn't conned by Tenet, what is the alternative?