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To: homeschool_dad
"Here's my choice: follow Christ to heaven or the pope to hell. Ummmmmm...... any guess which one I'll be choosing?

Who gave you that choice, Luther and the "reformers"? btw, Catholics don't "follow" the Pope, we follow Christ and the Pope helps us in our travels, as Peter helped his fellow Apostles and thousands of others he converted. Many a pope has been crucified, jailed, stabbed to death and tortured for following Jesus... you can take the easier, softer way, (predistination) that Luther provided for you... but who knows where it will lead?

78 posted on 07/11/2003 12:16:14 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: TheCrusader
I don't believe in predestination either. (Doing my best Boba Fett): "I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe."
80 posted on 07/11/2003 12:20:19 PM PDT by homeschool_dad
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To: TheCrusader
(predistination) that Luther provided for you...

How is it that you can get away with "We don't follow the pope, we only follow Christ" but that any Lutherans/Protestants are guilty of following Luther's lead, and not Christ?

Predestination is taught in Scripture. Read Romans 9:14-29. Clear as day.

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world...he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ..." (Eph. 1:4-5). So how long have you had this problem with the apostle Paul? (Why do you "blame" Luther for a clear teaching within Scripture?)

Even beyond the "choosing" from eternity--the power of God is operative within time & space re: folks coming to him: "No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3); "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:29); "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him..." (John 6:44).

Because Scripture teaches that God has predestined some to salvation and eternal life, John Calvin concluded that God must have also predestined some to damnation. Scripture does not make such a statement or support Calvin's conclusion. On the basis of Scripture Martin Luther also believed (and the Lutheran Confessions teach) that God has predestined some to salvation and eternal life. Luther did not, however, reach the conclusion that Calvin reached. He did not teach a "double predestination."

85 posted on 07/11/2003 12:37:11 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: TheCrusader
Your knowledge of theology is embarrassing.
148 posted on 07/16/2003 11:26:53 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("There is dust enough on some of your Bibles to write 'damnation' with your fingers." C.H. Spurgeon)
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