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To: LizardQueen
I disagree. It is selfish, in a lot of aspects. Chiefly, material.

Childrearing = sacrifice. Time, resources, your self. Deciding that you won't bring children into the world because you "can't do it right" (me Me ME!) is fickle as can be--you choose to consume all the resources you can muster and maintain for yourSELF and not replenishing the earth, returning something to it.

That's the definition of selfish. A woman inclined to think that way, probably has never endured real hardship or missed a meal, except to make a pair of slacks fit right.

I do apologize if I sound judgemental; but this is dear to my heart, and the most profound circumstance in my life these days. My son is 9 mos. old next week. We're poor, working class, uneducated, etc. We want a dozen (more--LOL)--and I'll tell you what--if ten of 'em end up in Huntsville, the cream will rise to the top, and the 2 give their kids what we gave to them--

LOVE

--not stuff--and all the cash and career in the world ain't gonna help the childless in their dotage. Guess they'll be shovelling their own independently wealthy gilt bedpans...

I work for a guy like this, completely self-absorbed, 36 years old with a live-in girlfriend of 8 years HE REFUSES TO MARRY, or have children with. He hangs out at Stars games and clubs and when not in his professional mode, his manner of conversation resembles an adolescent. And even though a liberal, he is an atheist and philosophically articulates a very Objectivist material dialectic--i.e., can justify anything he desires, by a morality built from materialism, but is blindsided when in conflict with the desires of another, or a group. He can't attribute the same moral principle to them (obviously--it is unworkable).

I like the guy personally, but look forward to his kind either maturing, finding Jesus, or dying off.

101 posted on 07/09/2003 7:39:02 PM PDT by Churchjack
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To: Churchjack
To be honest, you do sound judgemental, and this topic is also dear to my heart as I have personal experience with the "if not doing it right, then not at all"

My story: shortly after getting married, my husband developed some mental issues as well as a substance abuse problem. I battled this for almost 8 years, we almost split up countless times, etc. etc. The details are too ugly to go into.
I made a conscious decision that I would NOT bring a child into this relationship until he was straightened out.

Eventually, he got it together. But now there's the issue of my age and health making it a non-starter to start a family at this point (more ugly details that I won't go into here). Plus other husband issues that are secondary to the health ones.

So, was I selfish to not bring a child into a situation like that? You may think so, but I do not.
Sometimes people make the decision not to have kids not because it's in their best interest, but because it's in the best interest of the potential child.

I have another set of friends who didn't have kids because a serious mental illness ran all over the husbands family tree. It broke the wifes heart, but the husband was too afraid to take the chance the kid would have it, or that he would get it while the kid was growing up (every male in the line has had at least some of it - no, I'm not 100% sure what the disease is).

So before you judge, I respectfully suggest that you know the entire stories of those you judge. The facts beneath the decision may surprise you.

And frankly, I wish more people were "selfish" and didn't have kids, instead of having them and neglecting them, abusing them, treating them as fashion accessories, and all in all doing a crappy job of parenting them. Having them and not doing your best to raise them is the real selfish act.

LQ
122 posted on 07/09/2003 7:56:53 PM PDT by LizardQueen
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To: Churchjack
"My son is 9 mos. old next week."

My daughter will be 9mths old on the 18th of this month. This is just the cutest and sweetest age. I could just sit and play with her all day but I have a 2 1/2yr old son who would never allow that LOL. Just make sure you remember how sweet and cute he is now so that you can keep the sweet image in your head when he hits 2 or 2 1/2 yrs old. They turn into little devils around that time. Mine lately has been testing his limits in every way possible. Today he actually SAT on his little sister thinking he'd ride her back like a horse while she was crawling around. He also thought it was hilarious when it made her cry until he got spanked for it and started crying himself.
171 posted on 07/09/2003 11:16:21 PM PDT by honeygrl
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