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U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident
Haaretz ^ | 9/7/2003 | Nathan Guttman

Posted on 07/08/2003 4:33:17 PM PDT by Courier

U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident

By Nathan Guttman, Haaretz Correspondent

WASHINGTON - New documents released this week by America's National Security Agency support Israel's version of a long-festering controversy between the two countries: Israel's sinking of an American spy ship, the USS Liberty, off the coast of Gaza during the 1967 Six-Day War.

Israel has always said it had no idea the ship was American, but conspiracy theorists and anti-Israel propagandists still claim Israel sank the ship in the full knowledge that it was American.

The documents, originally defined as top secret, were made public by Florida Judge Jay Cristol, who

has been investigating the Liberty incident for years and published a book on the subject last year. On Monday, the NSA gave him a transcript of conversations held by two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots who were hovering over the Liberty as it was sinking, and these tapes confirm Israel's claim that the sinking of the ship, which killed 34 American servicemen and wounded 171, was a tragic error.

After the Liberty was bombed by both the Israel Air Force and the Israel Navy, the two helicopter pilots were summoned from their base to assess the damage and evaluate the possibility of rescuing the surviving crew members. An American spy plane, which had been sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack, recorded their conversations, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 P.M. on June 8, the third day of the war.

The spy plane also recorded the orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at Hatzor Base, which instructed them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed - thus supporting Israel's claim that it had believed the ship was Egyptian when it ordered it attacked. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were told.

Nine minutes later, Hatzor informed the pilots that it was not an Egyptian warship, but an Egyptian cargo ship. Only at 3:07 were the pilots first informed that the ship might not have been Egyptian at all: Hatzor told them that if they found Arabic-speaking survivors, they should be taken to El-Arish, but if they found English-speaking survivors, they should be taken to Lod. "Clarify by the first man that you bring up, what nationality he is, and report to me immediately," the supervisor instructed, according to the transcript. "It's important to know."

Then, at 3:12, one of the pilots informed Hatzor that he saw an American flag flying over the wounded ship. He was asked to investigate and determine whether it was really an American ship.

This is not the first time such transcripts have been made public: Israel gave its own recordings of the pilots' conversations to the British television station Thames in 1987. But conspiracy theorists charged that Israel had doctored the tapes before handing them over to the station in order to hide the fact that it sank the Liberty intentionally. No such imputation can be made about these new transcripts, as they were never in Israeli hands.

Israel has always said it attacked the Liberty, which America sent to the region to gather intelligence on the progress of the war, because it believed it was an Egyptian supply ship ferrying supplies to the Egyptian troops that Israel was then fighting. When it discovered the error, it immediately informed the Americans, apologized and paid compensation to the victims' families.

The incident was investigated by inquiry commissions in both Israel and the United States, and both concluded that it had, indeed, been a tragic error. Nevertheless, the controversy never died. In 1979, one of the survivors, James Ennes, published a book accusing Israel of bombing the American ship deliberately. Ennes claimed an Israeli spy plane had hovered over the ship all morning and had surely identified it as American, since the American flag was clearly visible.

A later book, written by James Bamford, charged that Israel sank the ship in order to keep America from learning of its plans to attack Syria, and further claimed that the NSA had tapes of conversations among Israeli pilots that not only confirmed this, but also proved that the tapes released by Israel had been doctored.

Another claim that appears frequently on the dozens of Internet sites devoted to the affair is that Israel sank the ship to conceal a mass murder of Egyptian soldiers on the Sinai peninsula.

In its letter to Cristol, the NSA stressed that, contrary to the claims that often appear in such books and Web sites - that the agency has tapes from both the Liberty and from a nearby American submarine that confirm Israel's guilt - the only tapes that exist were those made by the spy plane and given to Cristol this week.

"It's the last piece of intelligence that remained classified, and every rational person that will read it will understand that there is no truth in these conspiracy theories against Israel," Cristol said Tuesday. But he added: "Those who hate Israel, who hate Jews, and those who believe in conspiracy will not be convinced by anything."

Cristol, a former U.S. navy pilot and legal officer, began investigating the Liberty incident 14 years ago. Since publishing his book, which vindicates Israel, he has received threats and been accused of being an Israeli agent. "I take this lightly, but I am saddened to learn that there is this kind of hate toward Israel," he said.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: accident; bloodlibel; israel; nsa; sixdaywar; ussliberty
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To: Darksheare
Well, the problem is that if they're actually LYING about this, it's most likely because they KNOW that the mission in question was illegal.

The truth suffices--unless the act is illegal. Then you have to come up with a cock-and-bull story because, sooner or later, someone with a need to know and the appropriate clearances will ask the questions, and you'd better have a good lie ready.

It worked until 1992, because the Cold War meant that the Soviets would never fork over the information that would disprove the lie.

But the unthinkable happened--they did.
301 posted on 07/09/2003 12:43:22 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: yonif
These tapes, coming after the multiple attacks, could just be the initial step in the cover-up. They do not prove that the Israeli units making the attack and their commanders did not know the ship was American.

Yes it does. It states they believed they were Egyptian, after all they were AT WAR with them and the US said there was no ship within 200 miles of Israel.

Just because someone on the tape says that the ship is Egyptian does not prove that the commanders ordering the attack did not know it was an American ship. According to the survivors, Israeli units observed the ship very closely for some time before the attack. I'm prepared to accept that the attack was some kind of massive mistake if it can be proved. But IMHO the balance of the evidence still points to it being a deliberate attack with full knowledge that the ship was American. The Israelis definitely had motivation for the attack and in wartime, some commander such as Dayan may have had the balls to order it and answer questions later.

These tapes might seem like better proof if there wasn't such a huge incentive for a cover-up even before the attack began. And if there was a cover-up, no one who really knows what happened behind the scenes would seem to have any incentive to spill the beans. Given these motivational problems, these tapes are somewhat suggestive but definitely not conclusive.

302 posted on 07/09/2003 12:53:37 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: Poohbah
Yeah.
And now some major contortioning needs to be done to save face.
Or so they think.

This is going to get interesting real quick.

I would prefer that all the 'cards' be layed on the table, but whenever dealing with NSA or similar agencies, it's pretty much a given that one isn't ever going to get 'all the cards'. Ever.
303 posted on 07/09/2003 12:56:11 PM PDT by Darksheare (The Borg, the IRS of Star Trek.)
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To: adam_az
Prove that "labeling people who believe..........."?????????

Yup, your emotional response tells me everything. Thanks for your "thoughts", anyway.

304 posted on 07/09/2003 1:02:50 PM PDT by You Gotta Be Kidding Me
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To: wideawake
Not really. Claims of "rogue officers" etc. are pretty lame - it's the old "some Jews are OK, it's just the bad Jews I hate" story.

So, ah.......... all Jews are incapable of doing bad things? Jews are people, just like non-Jews. Some are good. Some are bad. To say otherwise smacks of racism/bigotry. Perhaps you meant something else, but I suspect not.

305 posted on 07/09/2003 1:06:40 PM PDT by You Gotta Be Kidding Me
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To: You Gotta Be Kidding Me
Frankly it strikes me as disingenuous. Who make sup this secret cabal of rogue officers? How did they plan this stupid assault? Why possible good could come of it?
306 posted on 07/09/2003 1:08:28 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Adrastus
This one was used too - the B61:

http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/nukenotes/jf03nukenote.html

The nuclear information comes from the US's own investigation into the why the planes were recalled.
307 posted on 07/09/2003 1:15:23 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: You Gotta Be Kidding Me
Perhaps you could offer some evidence of your wild claims.

If not, let me know and I will suggest a nice warm place you can stick your claims for safekeeping.
308 posted on 07/09/2003 1:18:25 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: wideminded
"But IMHO the balance of the evidence still points to it being a deliberate attack with full knowledge that the ship was American."

Quote your evidence, please. I want a primary source reference.
309 posted on 07/09/2003 1:19:25 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: wideawake
The book, "Attack on the Liberty", by James Ennes (an officer who was on the ship when it was attacked), describes a deliberate and sustained attack that came in waves. The ship had an enormous "parade flag" flying in a strong wind at the time according to him. HE concludes that the attack was ordered by General Moysha Dayan (sp?) to prevent the USS Liberty (an inteligence-gathering ship) from intercepting radio traffic that would indicate that Israel was making a pre-emtive strike against her Arab neighbors.

Whatever the motive for the attack, he describes a viscious, sustained attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli forces that involved bombing, torpedo hits AND straffing with machine gun fire. He also described the heroic actions of the USS Liberty's Chief Engineer, a man named, Golden. Golden died in the attack. Golden also happened to be a.......(drumroll, please)........a JEW.

310 posted on 07/09/2003 1:22:29 PM PDT by You Gotta Be Kidding Me
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To: adam_az
Read, "The Attack on the Liberty", by James Ennes. HE was on the ship at the time. You, I suspect, were not.
311 posted on 07/09/2003 1:24:16 PM PDT by You Gotta Be Kidding Me
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To: The Electrician
This reply was good! As S. Jackson said, it's impossible to convince anyone with this replacement mentality (sorry, put words in his mouth)--It is possible that people that argue this point and say they support Israel, really mean that they support it as long as they get rid of the Jews (or Arabs, or any other infidels.), so they can possess it--it would be easier to convince a pig to fly than to convince someone that G-d gave Israel to the Jews.
312 posted on 07/09/2003 1:44:45 PM PDT by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: adam_az
Quote your evidence, please. I want a primary source reference.

I've read many things about this incident over the past 20 years.

This is an interesting well-documented article:

http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROwalsh06.htm

I think that the testimony of survivors of the attack would certainly count as "primary source material". The website ussliberty.org has many interesting links.

313 posted on 07/09/2003 1:48:20 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: wideminded
You just can't get your mind around the issue.

What the crew saw, even where not tainted by time and trauma, doesn't matter.

No one denies that they were attacked. No one denies that they were attacked by Israeli forces.

The one and only issue is whether the Israelis knew, not even if they should have known, but if they knew they were attacking an American ship.

There NSA tapes secretly eavesdropping on the Israelis prove in real time that the Israelis believed that they were attacking an Egyptian ship and that they became confused and sought clarification when there were indications that they may have attacked Americans.

Classic friendly fire incident except for the fact that the US lied to Israel by telling them there were no friendly ships in the area.
314 posted on 07/09/2003 1:58:18 PM PDT by Courier (Quick: Name one good thing about the Saudis.)
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To: yonif
Horsefeathers
315 posted on 07/09/2003 1:58:50 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: wideminded
"Top former intelligence officials"

Hah.

Why do you continue to IGNORE the actual intelligence officials who have analyzed the data SIX TIMES and came to the same conclusion?

I quote the bottom of the web page:

"Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and "staff reports" at NSA's Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots' conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it "absolutely certain" they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby's is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material."

The NSA intercepts are now made public, and they show the OPPOSITE of what Kirby claimed. They are, however, consistent with the information released during the six investigations, and Israel's two.

The NSA released the actual intercepts, and the line these guys have been giving has been shown to be false, yet you continue to believe it.

Besides that, the testimony of the survivors is inconsistent.

How can a series of eyewitness reports all be true if they aren't consistent?
316 posted on 07/09/2003 2:32:32 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: Dubya
Were you dropped on your head as a child, or something?

I can't find any other explanation for the childish, hateful, and ignorant posts that bear your name.

Just like your namesake - a phony.
317 posted on 07/09/2003 2:36:06 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: E Rocc; grapeape; adam_az; Oztrich Boy; Poohbah
Maybee if the Isrealies really wanted it sunk then they would have come back to finish the job.

The USS Saratoga had scrambled a couple of F-4s to aid the Liberty (they were later recalled on the direct orders of Robert Strange MacNamara)and broadcast this fact.

-Eric

Actually, the aircraft were propeller-driven AD-1 Skyraiders, from another carrier, USS America, though Saratoga was to have launched a flight of A4 Skyhawk attack aircraft.

But it seems there's some question as to whether they were to assist the crew of the Liberty or to help the Israelis finish killing the crew and sinking the evidence:

At 2.50pm (Liberty time), 50 minutes after the first shells tore into the ship and as the attack was still going on, the aircraft carrier USS America, cruising near Crete, was ordered to launch four armed A-4 Skyhawks. At the same time, the carrier USS Saratoga was also told to send four armed A-1 attack planes to defend the ship. "Sending aircraft to cover you," the Sixth Fleet told the Liberty at 3:05pm (9.05am in Washington). "Surface units on the way."

At that moment in Washington, President Johnson was at his desk, on the phone, alternately shouting at congressional leaders and coaxing them to support his position on several pieces of pending legislation. But four minutes later he was interrupted by Walt Rostow, national security adviser, on the other line. "The Liberty has been torpedoed in the Mediterranean," Rostow told Johnson excitedly.

The NSA's worst fears had come true. "After considerations of personnel safety," said deputy director Tordella, "one of my immediate concerns, considering the depth of the water and the distance of the ship off shore, had to do with the classified materials on board." Tordella got on the phone to the Joint Reconnaissance Centre (JCS) and spoke to the deputy director, a Navy captain named Vineyard. "I expressed my concern that the written material be burned if at all possible, and that the electronic equipment be salvaged if that were possible," he said.

But Tordella was not prepared for what he heard. According to NSA documents - classified top secret- he was told that some senior officials in Washington wanted above all to protect Israel from embarrassment. "Captain Vineyard had mentioned during this conversation," wrote Tordella, "that consideration was then being given by some unnamed Washington authorities to sink[ing] the Liberty in order that newspaper men would be unable to photograph her and thus inflame public opinion against the Israelis. I made an impolite comment about the idea." Almost immediately, Tordella wrote a memorandum for the record, describing the conversation, and then locked it away.

A cover story for the Liberty was then quickly devised. "She was a communications research ship that was diverted from her research assignment," it said, "to provide improved communication-relay links with the several US embassies around the entire Mediterranean during the current troubles."

On the Liberty, black smoke was still escaping through more than 800 holes in the hull, and the effort to hush up the incident had already begun. Within hours of the attack, which left 34 men dead and two-thirds of the rest of the crew wounded, Israel asked President Johnson to quietly bury the incident. "Embassy Tel Aviv," said a highly secret, very limited distribution message to the state department, "urged de-emphasis on publicity since proximity of vessel to scene of conflict was fuel for Arab suspicions that the US was aiding Israel." Shortly thereafter, a total news ban was ordered by the Pentagon. No one in the field was allowed to say anything about the attack. All information was to come only from a few senior Washington officials.

Later that morning, Johnson took the unusual step of ordering the JCS to recall its fighters while the Liberty still lay smouldering, sinking, fearful of another attack and with its decks covered with the dead, dying and wounded. On board the flagship of the Sixth Fleet, Rear Admiral Lawrence R Geis, who commanded the carrier force in the Mediterranean, was angry and puzzled at the recall and protested to the secretary of defence, Robert S McNamara.

Geis was shocked by what he heard next. "President Lyndon Johnson came on with a comment that he didn't care if the ship sunk, he would not embarrass his allies." Geis told Lieutenant Commander David Lewis, head of the NSA group on the Liberty, about the comment but asked him to keep it secret until after Geis died. It was a promise that Lewis kept.

In the days following the attack, the Israeli government gave the US government a classified report that attempted to justify the claim that the attack was a mistake. On the basis of that same report, an Israeli court of inquiry completely exonerated the government and all those involved. No one was ever court-martialled, reduced in rank or even reprimanded. On the contrary, Israel chose instead to honour motor torpedo boat 203, which fired the deadly torpedo at the Liberty. The ship's wheel and bell were placed on prominent display at the naval museum, among the maritime artefacts of which the Israeli navy was most proud.

Despite the overwhelming evidence that Israel had attacked the ship and killed the American servicemen deliberately, the Johnson administration and Congress covered up the entire incident. Johnson was planning to run for president the following year and needed the support of pro-Israel voters.

A mistake or mass murder? It was a question Congress never bothered to address in public hearings at the time. Among those who have long called for an in-depth congressional investigation is Admiral Thomas Moorer, who went on to become chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. "Congress to this day," he said, "has failed to hold formal hearings for the record on the Liberty affair. This is unprecedented and a national disgrace." Perhaps it is not too late.

Extracted from Body of Secrets by James Bamford, published by Century at £20 © 2001 James Bamford


318 posted on 07/09/2003 3:09:44 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
What a bunch of crap.

These same "senior officials in Washington (who) wanted above all to protect Israel from embarrassment" never piped up when the US refused Israels request to establish a Naval Liason office so that incidents like this could be avoided?

Also, the Israelis tried to RESCUE the crew after they identified the ship as American, but were told to "F*** Off" by the crew.

Of course, your article is all speculation and innuendo, while the NSA released the actual intercepts.

Guess which is more credible?
319 posted on 07/09/2003 3:22:18 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: Poohbah; jmeadors
However, the F-4s launched from the USS America were loaded with nukes.

Was the A1 Skyraider [probably A1-E or A1-H] versions circa 1967 *Silver Plate* capable for nuclear missions? On first guess, I'd think not, but the Skyraider was certainly capable of carrying the load, and there were nuclear depth charges in use at that time. I was wearing a green suit back then, and had more pressing concerns like which roadfwheel of a T-62 tank to use as an aiming point to detonate the ammo inside behind it.

-archy-/-

320 posted on 07/09/2003 3:23:37 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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