Sharing the Blame for Fatherless Kids

CNSNews.com ^ | June 11, 2003 | Linda Chavez

[John O]

Sounds to me like you're excusing the cruel, manipulative behavior of the woman by attempting to paint this guy as "stupid". But human companionship and the sexual relation is the number one driving force of men and women in this world. There is nothing "stupid" about seeking a mate

There is everything stupid about seeking a mate. There is nothing stupid about seeking a good wife. This guy's stupidity is that he was just seeking a mate. (Just looking to get laid and maybe have a relationship later)

These days an easy woman must be looked at as evil and conniving until she proves through long experience that she is not. You must be patient.

It's always best to stay abstinent until after the wedding. This is even more important for guys than for gals as a pregnant woman who is not your wife (or for that matter who is your wife) can destroy your life for 18 to 24 years. The woman can always adopt the baby out or collect benefits as well as child support. You have no such option. If she wants to stick it to you then you are screwed. (Child support and alimony are the screwing you get for the screwing you got)

Never date a loose woman. Never date a divorced woman (until you are certain that her husband slept around on her and not vice versa) and never, never, never have sex with someone who is not your wife. (and for safety's sake have a great lawyer draw up an ironclad pre-nuptial)

[John O]

This is correct. The woman controls the sexual mores of the society. While men have a responsibility to control themselves and to stay moral, it becomes very hard to wait to buy the right cow when all the others are giving milk for free.

[netmilsmom]

I waited 33 years to find the right man to father my children. I had volunteers all over the place. It's easy to make a baby, it's hard to make a home for that baby. Women need to learn some self respect and realize that when they play, they pay.
Any man will volunteer to give you sperm. I feel it is up to the woman to pick the right man to take it from.

[netmilsmom]

>>Me: I'm a right wing wackoe who's "had it too easy" (according to my sisters) because I married a good Catholic man who's faithful, loving and is a good provider. Don't know how our 15 year old daughter will ultimately turn out, but so far she's a good kid who loves God, respects adults, and hasn't gotten into drugs, sex, or alcohol. <<

God Bless your family. I pray my five and three year old daughters are the same as your daughter at 15.

[frodolives]

Interesting thread. Unless there's a star in the east, how can a kid be born "Fatherless?" The sperm donor is out there someplace. The responsibility is not on the child, or the mother, to promote this bond. It is the responsibility of an adult male. No kid is "fatherless", but there's plenty of fathers out there who are just shirking their adult duties. This is not "human nature", it's just the conduct of low class scum, who probably had no fathers around either. Want to promote marriage? Promote responsible men.

[lonestar]

Sounds to me like you're excusing the cruel, manipulative behavior of the woman

Sounds to me I was excusing neither. I think it's the responsibility of both parties to practice birth control because one of the consequences of having sex is pregnancy. Why was he having sex with a "cruel, manipulative woman" to begin with?

It's not like they were marooned on an island.

[netmilsmom]

I agree with you but since I have girls and I am a woman, I am working on this from the female point of view.

[TheCrusader]

"I think it's the responsibility of both parties to practice birth control.."

Ah yes, birth control, that contraceptive/ abortive mentality that fostered sexual promiscuity and lose morals in the first place. Yeah, that's the answer.

[TheCrusader]

"I waited 33 years to find the right man to father my children. I had volunteers all over the place. It's easy to make a baby, it's hard to make a home for that baby. Women need to learn some self respect and realize that when they play, they pay. Any man will volunteer to give you sperm. I feel it is up to the woman to pick the right man to take it from."

What a beautiful post. Thank your letting know that sweet, beautiful, sensible, moral women are still out there. God bless you.

[TheCrusader]

"These days an easy woman must be looked at as evil and conniving until she proves through long experience that she is not. You must be patient."

Great advice!

[Orangedog]

There are both mothers and fathers out there who don't do right by their kids. We can blame the courts all we want, but it's up to the parents (both of them) to do the right thing.

I can sympathize with you on being short-changed in the father department. I didn't see much of mine after my parents divorced. I've made it a priority to have a close relationship with my daughter and make sure that my experience growing up was not going to turn into a cycle that becomes generational. So far I think I've been successful. I'll declare victory when she graduates from high school.

The courts share no small part of the blame for the state of things. There has always been a certain percentage of men who skip out on their responsibilities. That percentage will always be there. They were there before divorce and custody became a multi-billion dollar industry, and that ratio hasn't really changed after it became big business. Sadly, that's part of human nature. I have nothing good to say about those men and will have nothing to do with anyone I meet who lives like that. What the courts, polititians and lawyers have done has built a machine that treats all fathers equally...equally bad, that is. All of that legal machinery treats every father it encounters with contempt. Have you ever had to deal with the "cheerful" people at the BMV for license plates or sit across the desk from an IRS auditor? That's what you go through when you're a father in "family" court. If you're lucky, you manage to get a little more than the 'every-other weekend and alternating holidays' package that takes up one two-sided piece of paper that resides with the other forms at the clerks office. A lot of the time, you have to pay thousands of dollars in attorney and court fees to keep from getting even less than that. The big difference between the BMV, the IRS, and domestic court with the first two, you risk getting a ticket or having to explain some deductions on yout long-form. With the domestic courts, you lose your God-given right to raise your own children, your paycheck garnished in exactly the same manner that a bill collector would, and your ex-wife can move your kids to the other end of the continent if he new boyfriend happens to live there.

This system has done nothing to make the real "deadbeats" more responsible or caring fathers, but it has succeeded wildly at treating just about every father who went through a divorce like a deadbeat.

[TheCrusader]

"I just don't agree with your stance that men can't control their own actions."

It's funny, I don't believe that men can't control their own actions either, and I never said that or implied it. My point is very simple; throughout human history men have been the ones in society who give the "chase" for the male-female relationship, while women drop the subtle hints. It's human nature, and I don't care to argue how or why, it just is, and we all know it. When the man "catches" the woman he seeks, the sexual contact that occurs or does not occur is up to her, always has been. It's not a matter of "control" once the woman says "yes". Say what you please, but we will never have world full of men who are all refusing to have sex with their female partners who are asking for it. One of the two has to set the tone. This does not imply that there won't be a "breakdown" of will between them once or twice; but it does mean that in general it's up to the female to establish what will happen between them sexually. Women cannot reasonably expect to make themselves available to their boyfriends and just watch them all turn and walk away. We have to be real.

[Orangedog]

This is not "human nature", it's just the conduct of low class scum, who probably had no fathers around either. Want to promote marriage? Promote responsible men.

Yes, it is part of human nature. There will always be people who think with the wrong part of their body. Those men deserve no place in a responisible society. What is equally wrong is to treat all divorced fathers like the low-lifes.

This is all about human nature. The lawyers, judges, and everyone else in the industry appeal to the baser instincts of human nature when they take they give most of the rights to the mother with no accountability while putting most of the responsibility on fathers and threaten to hold them accountable with criminal sanction if he can't (no matter what the reason is) if he doesn't do as he's told.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Nothing on your post serves to indicate that your sisters' children would have done better with their fathers in the household, especially the "abusive mean guy" or the perpetually unemployed guy. Sure, they'd probably have been better off with GOOD fathers, but just having any old male creep around the house is NOT what accounts for the good statistics about children who grew up in two parent homes. Those children do better because of the KIND of fathers (and mothers) they have -- the kind that are inclined to form and maintain stable households. When no such father is in the picture, most children would probably do better if their mother's never married their fathers (and/or other men) in the first place. The disruption caused by divorce is seriously damaging to children, and accounts for a lost of the bad results attributed to "single parent" homes. There really should be a separate statistical category for homes that are single parent from the start (and not one with a revolving cast of "shack-ups") -- they're a totally different experience for children than the frequently-and-unpredictably changing-number-of-parents homes.

By the way, you don't mention what sort of parental configuration(s) you and your sisters grew up with. If it was two parents all the way through, I'd say the outcomes for the children as a group weren't so hot.

[netmilsmom]

>>What a beautiful post. Thank your letting know that sweet, beautiful, sensible, moral women are still out there. God bless you.<<

Why thank you and the Lord shine on you as well.
I pray that I am doing the right thing to raise two more just like me. Whether moms want to admit it or not, soooo much of that depends on their Daddy (and their Daddy adores them). If a young girl does not have the love of a good daddy she will look to other men for that love.

And other men come with strings attached...

[Under the Radar]

I'm not going to hold my breath for industry to be overhauled. There's too much money being transfered and too much control over people's lives for any of the damage to be repaired. Case in point, just wait for the so called lovers of liberty here on FR to pounce on anyone who advocates doing away with the double standards and the "pay up and shut up" treatment that a lot of fathers are treated to after the wife gets bored and isn't feeling "fulfilled." And what over-riding reason do they have to stick it out until the kids are grown?! 85% of the time she'll get custody and a large part of her former husbands takehome pay. These simpletons are too wrapped up with revenge and being emotional to realize that the same people who make all of this happen for them are setting them up for a fall, bigtime. The second the courts and lawyers get involved, dad gets screwed and they use his own children to do it to him. The mothers GIVE the court industry that power. As soon as most of the fathers have been fleeced for all they are worth, then it will get ugly for them. What makes these women think that the system won't turn on them as soon as it becomes clear that there are not enough men to keep the industry growing? Then it will no longer be convenient for them to be permitted to raise their kids and the state will take over the job completely. THEN we'll hear all about how "unfair" the system is when they end up on the receiving end of the "for the children" courts.

Excellent post.

BUMP!!

[Under the Radar]

If I was making the laws, women would be 100% responsible for any babies they have, unless they are married to the father. Marriage implies a contract to help support the children; "getting laid" doesn't. Take away the welfare and the forced child support, and you'd see a lot of irresponsible young women suddenly figuring out how not to get pregnant.

Bingo.

[glory]

I agree with this, but in another regard. I know of family members(in laws) who will talk out the side of their mouths about their kids sleeping with this and that one, but the truth is they can not wait for their teen to have a child and the other stuff is lip service they give because they know it is what decent folk want to hear. With the folks I know, it's not the monetary benefit, but the chance to be a mother again of a baby. You know the types, they love kids when they are babies to say 8 yrs old and then they are done with them and ready to move on to the next baby crop.
This behavior in my sil's has always floored me. I think that in many ways they actively encourage their daughters(and sons) to produce children young so they can have babies to raise again, after all they did such a stellar job the first time(sarcasm off). Whether it's for emotional or monetary reasons, I do agree with you that many times parents have had a hand in encouraging their teens and single adult children to have babies.

[glory]

Well said nets:-)

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Unspun with AnnaZ
June 12th, 2003 -- 7pmP/10pmE

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