[Skywalk]

-somewhat agree-only if you know how to properly use and employ that weapon-and many people who have guns do not know how to employ and use that weapon as an extension of themselves. They are more a danger to themselves and the public than any criminal."

Sounds like gun-grabber garbage to me. The vast majority of gun owners put in time at the range, most regularly. How is someone, simply by being unskilled in firearms, MORE DANGEROUS to the public than a CRIMINAL. Did you really think before you typed? A criminal, by the friggin definition of the term, is far more dangerous to you or I, than some guy who doesn't know much about his gun and will probably never use it. DUH. The person who can't drive but owns a Ferrari, is less of a danger than the habitual drunk driver. To insinuate less is to pander to the sense of "nobility" that is apparently being inculcated into "peace officers" these days.

[Tin-Legions]

Your right, I meant as dangerous as a criminal when trying to defend themselves with firearms. And most gun owners DO NOT put in enough time on a range, or a mobile shooting course, or have the sense of employing a weapon in a brief, high intensity man to man conflict that is required. Can you convince me otherwise: sure, site facts and figures. But after 11 years as a soldier (half of those as an infantryman), handling weapons on a daily basis for probably the last 15 years, and dealing with all types of people who love the gun culture, I am convinced that most are unable to react in a violent situation without causing undue harm to innocents.

Now do many cops lack such training and end up a threat to innocents: of course, people don't realize that such training is both time consuming, and can be expensive if you don't have proper ranges, hence many small and mid sized PD's either don't get the training due to budget constraints, or rely heavily on ex-military trained officers. That does not solve the problem, either, as you know that such training is easily lost in time.

Final point: combative attitudes as you expressed usually end up receiving combative attitudes. When you and I put on badges-remember that there are many out there who can out-shoot, out-muscle and out-fight you, and you never know that by first impressions. I come from a family of LEO's, experience shows that such attitudes should be last resort. Try calm, organized debate. It will get you farther.