U.S. soldier killed in Iraq grenade attack

AlertNet ^ | 01 Jun 2003 15:16:04 GMT | Reuters

[yonif]

DUBAI, June 1 (Reuters) - At least one American soldier and two Iraqis were killed in a grenade attack on a U.S. tank in central Baghdad on Sunday, al-Jazeera television reported.

The network, quoting its own Baghdad correspondent, said the attack occurred in front of the city's main mosque. It said several more people were wounded. There was no immediate comment from the U.S. military.

[section9]

"They are bastards and deserved it. They make us feel nostalgic for the days of Saddam," said one local woman.

Notice that this was in the middle of Sunni country. Of course we're going to get this reaction. The Shiias like us, as do the Kurds. We're the ones who got the damn Sunnis off thier backs.

You can set up a democracy in Iraq and leave, and it will go to hell. Only if you set up a constitutional republic based on individual liberty under the rule of law does Iraq have any chance at all.

Democracy is buncombe, and eventually leads to rule by the mob, the tyrrany of the majority (a reason why Dems love it), the ievitable Man on the White Horse, and finally, fascism.

Of course, this is a civilization founded on tribal Arab traditions and Islam, which only means that the fascism will come more quickly.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[BagCamAddict]

First, we have evidence that Saddam and Sons existed also, yet we haven't found them either.

Second, I don't recall ANYONE saying there were "thousands" of WMD. I specifically recall Clinton saying a defector mentioned 25 scud warheads with WMD. And I specifically recall a report of 2000 gallons of Anthrax. Hiding "25" of anything, let alone 25 small warheads, in a country the size of California is much different than hiding "thousands" of anything. But thousands of something, if it did exist, could also be hidden in an entire country.

Third, 2000 gallons of Anthrax could be contained in ONE 2000-gallon tank buried in the ground somewhere, or on a truck. A 2000-gallon tank is only 6 feet in diameter by 10 feet in length. So the Anthrax WMD, capable of killing tens of thousands of people, could be stored in ONE tank somewhere in Iraq. Gee, why haven't we found it yet?

Fourth, yes, National Security is why the photos and such are not published for general consumption. You prefer that we tell the world what our spy capabilities are? Like the politician who blurted out that we were tracking Bin Ladin via his cell phone calls... causing Bin Ladin to stop using cell phones and making him nearly impossible to track... Is that what you prefer, that we disclose to the world what our spy capabilities are? Who's side are you on?

[PiP PiP Cherrio]

The everyday idiot knows the bad guy's cell phones are being monitored by those who are looking or following him. That was an excuse to invoke the "national security" theme. Everyone knows we have eyes in the sky. What, Saddam was not aware we were looking down on him? On top of that, our technology is so high-end that any "photographic" evidence or any evidence can become easily altered due to technology. So, no. I am very skeptical of what the US says is evidence and wrong doings of anything anymore. Maybe if you saw the former Yugoslavia first-hand you'd understand where I am coming from.

[optimistically_conservative]

You've definitely let your Serbian cynicism toward the US slant your view on Iraq, and IMHO reality.

So, what you're counting on is that there has been an international 20 year conspiracy to set Hussein up, and WMD never existed in Iraq?

Or is the conspiracy only 10 years old?

Or perhaps the international conspiracy ended in 1998 when US/UK/German/Canadian intelligence agencies, along with Chirac, Chretien, Schroeder, Blair, etc. and the UN when Clinton was demanding action and bombed Iraq over WMD?

The US ground forces went into Iraq on March 20th. The major combat ended by, let's say, the middle of April. Shall we give them a few more months to try to piece together what Hussein and friends did leading up to, and after we crossed the Kuwaiti border, before we claim everyone is a liar?

[ErnBatavia]

He was thrown over 200meters in the air he said.

Mmmm Hmmm - my DI's were also known to stretch the truth just a tad.

[optimistically_conservative]

The everyday idiot knows ...

Apparently you do. I do not. What does that mean exactly?

Skepticism is good, cynicism - not necessarily. You've crossed the line on this one.

And the US wasn't itching for a fight in the former Yugoslavia. Srebrenica started the media campaign for war. Look at who were the hawks for Bosnia and Kosovo then, and who are the doves now. The hypocrisy is amazing. Look who were the hawks for action against Iraq in 1998 and who are the doves now.

To compare the history and body of evidence between the war in Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia and Kosovo with Iraq is, well, near zealotry.

[Destro]

I think that terrorism has usually meant an attack on civilian targets in order to mainly cause a sense of 'terror' among a certain civilian population

That was my point too. My point was while the deed doers were terrorists the attack was not a "terrorist" attack. Terrorism is an attack on civilians or civilian infrastructure designed to induce civilian terror so terror can be used as a tool of persuasion.

[Search4Truth]

"Saddam Hussein hasn't been found YET either, does that mean HE didn't exist???"

Absence of proof, is not proof of absence - Carl Sagan

[BagCamAddict]

The everyday idiot knows the bad guy's cell phones are being monitored by those who are looking or following him.

I hate to point out that you are arguing my side of this issue... but I will...

The only reason 'the everyday idiot' knows we monitor cell phones NOW is because of security leaks in the past! And Bin Ladin, who is clearly NOT an everyday idiot, didn't know we were monitoring HIM until it was leaked. And yes, the everyday idiot in the civilized world knows we monitor cell phones NOW, but that leak happened years ago, BEFORE the everyday idiot knew half of what they know now. But a naive 19-yr old Abu-terrorist in the Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan didn't know we monitored cell phones because they were ignorant, just the way the "leaders" wanted them so they could be easily brainwashed.

Surely you are not so naive as to believe that Bad Guys are mind-readers or that they intuitively know every technological advancement made by the US Military, without needing to hear about it via security leaks. In other words, the only way Bad Guys know how they can be followed/tracked, is by someone LEAKING the information about our capabilities. They can't read minds, so SOMEONE had to divulge the sensitive information.

It's no different than the early advances in criminal science. Before fingerprints were understood to be unique to each individual, crooks didn't worry about leaving fingerprints behind. Once word got out that fingerprints were incriminating, crooks started wearing gloves.

Before DNA was understood, crooks didn't worry about leaving DNA behind. Now rapists wear condoms.

But these scientific advances had to get out to the public before 'the everyday idiot' knew about fingerprints and DNA. And now that the everyday idiot knows about those things, the crooks can make themselves harder to find, since they know what NOT to do.

It's the same with National Security issues. If we have satellites capable of seeing my eye color in daylight, but not at night, then you can bet I won't be showing my face until after the sun goes down. But if I don't know our satellites can see that well, then I won't be hiding my face in the middle of the day. Not until some blabbermouth tells the world that our satellites can tell if I have a zit or not as long as the sun is up.

Maybe if you saw the former Yugoslavia first-hand you'd understand where I am coming from.

This has nothing to do with what I have seen or not seen. This is a discussion about an issue, and you are not making a compelling, logical, or fact-based argument for your side of the issue. I have seen many things in my lifetime that you have not seen. So what? I'm not bringing them into the discussion because they are irrelevant. Aside from that, I guess you failed to recognize the former Yugoslavia issues happened during the Clinton era, and that times have changed since then.

I also notice you didn't rebut my points about not having found the WMD yet. Why not - no ammo?

[PiP PiP Cherrio]

that is right, no WMD, errr ammo.

it is all about gullibility, addict.

[yonif]

The act of including civilians in the acts of war is terrorism too, right

No, because civilians were not targerted.

[yonif]

What about if terrorists were on the way to murder innocent civilians, but on the way, kills soldiers who spot him? I would call that terrorism.

[yonif]

In addition the presence of weapons of mass detruction, you had a leader who PURSUES weapons of mass destruction as well.

[BagCamAddict]

It certainly is, and you fell for the media version of things hook, line, and sinker, didn't you?

[PiP PiP Cherrio]

You do not know my disdain for the media that I display towards them.

I fall for reading between the lies, obviously you would be crying the direction of Clinton were still in office doing the same thing. Your type are hypocrits, I know your kind very well.

[ohioWfan]

Have you forgotten that the UN acknowledged that there were WMD.....not just Rice, Bush and Powell?

They exist. Everyone with a brain knows that.

[PiP PiP Cherrio]

Where are they? I know they have them, but not in the amount which was claimed- not nearly.

[ohioWfan]

It has only been 7 weeks since the end of the war. There are hundreds of sites not yet investigated. They might have been taken to other countries. The fact that WMD have not been found yet is not even surprising let alone alarming.

I find this obviously orchestrated outcry about finding them NOW quite curious.......and most likely the result of the leftist organizations.......including the media's...... efforts to once again attempt to undermine the success of this President.

This won't work either.

[Thunder 6]

Actually, given the news of the past few days, those army tankers are going to be there at least a few more months. I'm sure they would LOVE to see a Marine unit do a relief in place.
regards,

[PiP PiP Cherrio]

I am sure PMCS is being done at the 2d tanks ramp in preparation for Iran. Next analysis to determine is when the Iranian buildup starts.