Canadian Prime Minister Taunts Church: "I Am A Catholic And For Abortion"

Life Site ^ | 5/28/03

[ernie pantuso]

Although the Pope has personally pronounced his opposition to the death penalty, I do not believe that position is an official part of church doctrine. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Tamar1973]

The Catholic Church usually reserves excommunication for recalcatrant bishops and authority figures, not for pew-warming Catholics.

It's RARELY done. I think the last time I heard of someone getting excommunicated in the RCC, it was in reference to a bishop in Africa who "married" a woman in a ceremony performed by Rev. Moon. He repented and the pope took him back.

[wimpycat]

Can his priest refuse to give him communion (assuming he shows up for mass once in a while)? Is refusing communion within the discretion of the priest? Is that tantamount to excommunication?

[madprof98]

The pope's "personal" opposition to the death penalty is not at all like the so-called Catholic politicians' occasionally professed "personal" distaste for abortion. Rather, it's a matter of Christian teaching, set forth in an encyclical and codified in the 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church. Of course, those who favor this form of killing will immediately say, "Ah, but it's not INFALLIBLE." To which the pro-aborts will say, "And neither is the pro-life stuff since, after all, Thomas Aquinas didn't think embryos had souls." Etc. Ad nauseam. In both cases, we are dealing with cafeteria Catholics.

[ChicagoGuy]

Well said. I say excommunicate all of them, or none of them.

[Loyalist]

Where is this scum-bag's Bishop?

Most Rev. Martin Veillette, Bishop of Trois-Rivières, Quebec, can be freeped at secretariat@evechetr.org

Surely they don't lack the stones to excommunicate this poltroon?

Yes they do. The Quebec bishops are a notoriously craven lot.

[wimpycat]

Strange...I have not heard any politicians (or anyone else fot that matter) come out and say, "I am Pentecostal and for abortion!"

Probably because you've never seen a liberal Pentacostal before...and neither have I, come to think of it. There are plenty of people of other denominations that are pro-"choice", though. But "liberal" and "Pentacostal" are pretty much mutually exclusive.

[Unam Sanctam]

I am a Catholic and for abortion and he is not.

Basically, M. Chretien is saying that he is a Catholic whose faith means nothing to him, since he doesn't believe in that faith's tenets. And he apparently thinks this is something praiseworthy. Unfortunately, he is like many Catholic politicians (and other Catholics) nowadays for whom left wing party line political correctness is more important than their faith.

[Tamar1973]

Can his priest refuse to give him communion (assuming he shows up for mass once in a while)? Is refusing communion within the discretion of the priest? Is that tantamount to excommunication?

From what I have heard/read, yes. The local priest can refuse to give a Catholic access to the Eucharist if they feel that the person is living in a state of unrepented sin.

Refusing to offer eucharist and excommunication are not the same thing. Having to refuse a catholic access to the eucharist due to the issue of cherish, unrepented sin doesn't make one a non-catholic. Excommunication would make the person a non-catholic in the eyes of the church.

[UCANSEE2]

Perhaps then the CAN PM ought to consider starting with his own mother. Should she have been allowed to have an abortion? If she wasn't, should it be done retroactively, given the PM's remarks and position on this issue?

[ernie pantuso]

I don't understand what you are saying. Could you clarify what your post#24 mean? As I stated in my post, correct me if I am wrong. I am just a little confused by your remarks.

[arasina]

He's not a Catholic. He's a different kind of lic(k).

[Loyalist]

Ti-Jean was the 18th of 19 children in his family, only nine of whom survived infancy.

When Quebec was good and Catholic, they didn't have to worry about assimilation by les anglais because they understood what was meant by la revanche des berceaux.

[cpforlife.org]

Christians, who vote for pro-abortion candidates, prolong the duration of this abortion holocaust. Voting records of Christians show that our schools have not taught the truth about the unborn in an effective way as an option to the lies we’ve all been exposed to. When our shepherds express their “sadness and frustration” over their flocks repeated votes for pro-abortion politicians, it must be respectfully pointed out to these shepherds that they did not educate their former students in Christian schools as to WHY they are supposed to be pro-life, to VOTE pro-life. THEY WERE NOT TAUGHT THE TRUTH, so they swallowed the lies. Quite frankly we should not expect these ex-pro-life people to make voting pro-life a priority—we let them down.

It is time for the pro-life movement together with the leaders of the Protestant and Catholic churches to face this simple reality: We are responsible for how our students of today will live and VOTE as adults. If we want them to end this growing culture of death, we must teach and prepare them NOW - in a comprehensive way.

[JNB]

Wrong, the CCC states that it is that punishment for criminals belongs to the state. The death penalty is not even close to being on the same level of abortion, and the CCC states that is no other way can be found to protect society, then the death penalty can be used as a option. The Catholics who state pro death penalty Catholics are cafateria Catholics are either "seamless garment" Catholics who are liberal on social matters other than abortion, or Papal Maximalists who take the cult of personality surrounding a Pope alot further than was was in the days of Pope Pius IX.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The Church needs to call his bluff.

[AmishDude]

I only support abortion when we develop time travel. At that point, I'll develop a list of left-wing politicians' mothers and a large sum in gold or antique money.

[UCANSEE2]

they understood what was meant by la revanche des berceaux.

I do not. I would be interested in finding out. Would you mind explaining the phrase above to me? I do not understand why he is making an issue about ABORTION and being CATHOLIC. Usually politicals do it for political gain. This seems contrary to that, but perhaps It is because I know little about Canadian politics.

[JNB]

Here is what the CCC states.

2267 "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.


One can make arguements that prisoners on death row have escaped and have murderd other people, as what happened Texas a few years ago whebn a young police officer was killed in the DFW area, or what happens is when condemned prisoners murder other prisoners, as what has taken place many times. The death penalty is linked to the just war issue, and while far more needs to be done to apply the death penalty in a just manner(look no further than the OJ case, even if he was convicted he would not have faced the death penalty because he had money to buy a good team of lawyers), the method of punishment belongs to the state, and is not evil or immoral if the punishment is done justly, much like the case for or against the just war. Seamless Garment for amchurch liberals and Papal Maximalism for neo-conservatives do not cut it when one actually reads the CCC and looks at the real world applications.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

But "liberal" and "Pentacostal" are pretty much mutually exclusive.

There are some. But libral by Pentacostal standards is pretty conservitive by almost any other.

I have never met one who is pro-abort.