The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'

the author's site ^ | 1972 | Dallas Willard

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the ping back to this thread and for the quote and the great Scripture links! We must be on the same wave-length because this is the second time the subject of thinking without language surfaced on the forum. Jeepers!

[William Terrell]

This is a good explanation and all, but anybody that's watched what goes on in his head knows you don't think in language except on purpose.

. . .that logic is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language.

I always thought that logic was the use of principles of cause and effect to extrapolate a condition of reality.

[nicmarlo]

bump for later read (tonight). Good morning, unspun. Hope you have a great day!

[headsonpikes]

...this is the second time the subject of thinking without language surfaced on the forum.

OTOH, language without thinking is as common as houses here. ;^)

Not your posts, of course!

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOLOL! Thank you so much for the chuckle and the encouragement! Hugs!!!

[aruanan]

I cannot believe that this has gotten over 1200 hits.

[RightWhale]

Novelty--that's how the patent office judges inventions submitted for patenting.

[Heartlander]

Unspun! Thanks for the ping and links… I hope you had a Merry Christmas.

Thinking in language eh… There was a time in my life when I was spending far too much time correcting the spelling of my thoughts until I stopped and thought, “Y?”

[LogicWings]

Too bad I'm too busy to be much of a freeper anymore, and missed getting in on this from the beginning. This is a facinating subject, which is why it has so many posts.

The idea that we don't "think in language" is due to a sloppy definition of language. We think in metaphoric symbology, and all our mental mapping of reality takes place in this fashion. This mapping is "language", period.

As a martial artist and a former Taoist I can state that there are times when "words" get in the way, are even counter productive. I can mentally rehearse and go thru any number of steps without thinking a single "word."

The "Zen of playing Tennis" is another example. The more one can shut the "words" down, the better one will play.

But just as Hawaiian Hula, and several other dances as well, have a meaning for every movement, so too these things are just different "languages" or symbols representing objects, actions and events in reality.

Those metaphoric symbols are language. Thus no one, ever, thinks without some form of language. Just as there is a language of mathematics, a language of religion, a language of differing philosophies, a language of chemistry, so too there is a language of martial arts or anything else.

Recently I ran across a paper somewhere where the conclusion was that logic is imposed by reality. Logic IS the basis of language, the Law of Identity IS the identification of objects, actions and events with concepts. Concepts don't have to be words alone, they can be the mental association of how to block a punch properly. But it is dependent up the concept of the blow, and the Law of Cause and Effect that the concept of blocking the blow entails.

And since the Law of Cause and Effect is imposed by reality, it cannot be escaped, every action taken by any perceiving creature is entirely dependent upon it, logic is imposed by reality. It isn't something created by man anymore than the sun is. It is something perceived in reality just as the sun is. And the mapping of perception by metaphoric symbols, of all perception in the human mind IS language, which is utterly dependent upon logic for those conceptual symbols. No matter what the author says here.

[unspun]

And the mapping of perception by metaphoric symbols, of all perception in the human mind IS language, which is utterly dependent upon logic for those conceptual symbols. No matter what the author says here.

Hmm....

What about what TaxRelief and others have so well described in this thread, i.e., the generation, maintenance and correlation of our "concepts" by "intentions," as Dr. Willard would say (first the intention to regard the things we regard, then the intention to do somthing further about it)? We don't need metaphorical symbology for that, even if one were to beg the point of calling any ordering of concepts "language."

An intention to regard and consider either direct stimuli or concepts of them, is not a linguistic opus.

[unspun]

Furthermore, one can consider states/conditions such as "warmth," or "harm," or "goodness," or "love," without the engagements of either words or other symbols (although we are often very quick to attach such symbols to them).

[MattAMiller]

Bump to read later

[nicmarlo]

Gosh.....NOW it's REALLY gonna take forever for me to (1) read the article (2) read over a 1,000 posts, and (3) make a comment..............SHEESH! : ) Morning, unspun!

[William Terrell]

If I cut a tree down and see someone standing where it's going to fall, I don't think, "Gosh, this tree is going to fall on that person." I just recognize the fact and yell.

When I have an idea, I have it in an instant and it may take several minutes to verbalize it to someone. Words and symbols are much too slow.

Writing this post, the toughts come first, then I put them into words. I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I don't think in language; I just use language to communicate.

[Pietro]

bookmark

[unspun]

www.evelynwood.com ?

[unspun]

Thanks for spelling it out again, WT!

I think this article/thread is useful for dispelling the fallacy that people are essentially mechanistic biological complexities ("computational model," etc.). That seems to be one of the tenets of faith for materialists.

We can bookmark it for that purpose and refer folks to it from time to time....

[William Terrell]

Thanks for spelling it out again, WT!

Sorry to keep repeating my self, but I keep getting pinged back to the thread and renewing the disgust at the notion that people think in words. Right. The world is a cube and revolves around a rat turd in one dimensional space.

[RightWhale]

these things are just different "languages" or symbols representing objects, actions and events in reality.

Language means, in its etymological root, tongue, which means spoken. There are other articulate forms of expression, and we might include written forms of language, and even maps. But dance, music, architecture, drama in itself, are art and not articulate forms of expression but aesthetic forms.

It might be useful to make this distinction, either now or at some point later in the discussion, to have gradations of meaning available.

[potlatch]

Lol, unspun, I haven't read all 1239 comments on this thread, and have NO idea what's going on!!