The Pastor Without a Paycheck

Why not just obey the law? People like this deserve the misery they give themselves.

Nathaniel Fischer followed up with asking Illbay: You're a Mormon, aren't you?

It's the LDS church, of which included my ancestors and current extended family members, which has advocated no political position on abortion to its church members...which has told its bishops in its Handbook on Church Instruction that it's OK to get abortion for reasons of disability or health (which can mean anything--and the abortionist determines what "health" means). Odd for a church that believes that spirit babies are up yonder waiting to inhabit bodies here on earth. The LDS folk should be the most pro-life of any "tribe."

The answer from many paper-tiger pro-lifers about how they support the lives of the pre-born is that they don't (other than lip service).

Actually, I invoke Psalm 137:9 whenever I encounter a prominent pro-death spokesman in print. Even as these people prosper by killing other people's children, I pray that they may be deprived of their own children. The New Testament application of this sentiment is -- a prayer for the conversion of their children. The Rock is Jesus. I pray that the Savior will alienate the children of abortionists by converting them to the service of the Lord of Life.

I haven't shamed the pro-life cause by engaging in criminal behavior for publicity if that is what you mean.

Do you know this Pastor personally? I'm just wondering because the article shows a man with a lifetime commitment to God, yet you insist he protested for a few minutes of publicity. Perhaps you could share your personal knowledge with us.

Although I have been called "useless" because I refused to support the killing of abortion doctors.

I missed the part where the Pastor said he advocated killing abortion doctors....Is this more personal knowledge?

I like your tagline....so, how are you part of the solution?

Simple question: Why not just obey the law? People like this deserve the misery they give themselves.

Isn't the answer obvious? Because the believes in standing up for the helpless innocent who cannot stand up for themselves. When the State or Federal Law is contrary to universal moral laws from God, it CAN and SHOULD be broken. Question for you: The germans near Buchenwald obeyed the law and sat passively buy while thousands were led to their deaths...which is more important - obeying the law or doing what is right? hmmm?

Dan, Appy has posted many times here that the "local abortionist" delivered his daughter.

He might have a line in the sand somewhere, but it's really hard to see.

he {Randy Alcorn} did it to be outrageous. It was an extreme act that got him arrested.

Again, Jesus dying for our sins--or even becoming a man to begin with--was an extreme, outrageous act. The word "radical" comes from the word "radix"--which means roots. To be radical means just to return to our roots, which is God, Himself--a God who will do outrageous, extreme things because His love is outrageous and extreme.

it gave the abortion crowd a bullet for their magazine. We shouldn't be loading their guns for them.

Neither should we would elevate our reputation over the very lives of babes. We have two choices: Either engage in self-survival--do things according to what will protect our individual and corporate (pro-life movement) reputation--or doing things Scripturally: Become expendable. Become self-sacrificial.

Let's not save the pro-life movement at the expense of babies. Let's save the babies at the expense of the pro-life movement. As Bonhoeffer said in 1933: "I guess we need to start an emergency league within the emergency league." In other words, let's have a movement that will urgently protect life in deed, not just name only.

Good answer, Colorofornian. Evil has to be confronted and some of these posters are so anti-christian that no matter what any Christian does, they get blasted for it. I admire people who stand up for what they believe.

Great answer, Colofornian! I like you!

Who in hell is saying anything about killing doctors? Christian pro-lifers don't kill doctors. You may find a nut who does but that's not the norm. You don't have a clue as to the good that may have been done by Alcorn and others. Your anti-Christian bias shines through your posts. What's your real problem?

My, quite a discussion here. It's too bad that most of us have opinions based upon hearsay rather than first-hand experience. Allow me to throw in a bit of experience.

Yeah, I went through this battle-- not the same one Mr. Alcorn did, but one like it-- and unlike it too. I stood outside a clinic and watched women go in to kill their children. I saw them cover their faces so they couldn't be identified. I waited until they came out, pale and crying but still scared of being recognized. When the police came, I didn't fall down and refuse to move along like some of the others, I grumbled and walked away, only to return another day to witness it all again.

Then one day I witnessed it in another, even more painful way. I and a woman I loved had made a baby. We weren't married and she didn't want her co-workers to know, so she decided to have an abortion. I tried to talk her out of it, but she was adamant. I enlisted the help of friends whom she knew and trusted. She would not be swayed.

Prior to the actual abortion, she had an examination which included an ultrasound scan. I asked to be there and got to see my child squirming and fluttering in the womb. She wouldn't look at it nor would she allow me to keep the small photo the technician used to gauge the age of the child. The next day she was late coming home from work. Her appointment at the clinic was for 6 pm. She finally arrived home at 7:30, pale, crying and bleeding.

To this point I have not mentioned our other child, a daughter who was four years old at the time this was taking place. She's fourteen now, a freshman in high school and more beautiful than I can describe. But on that dark winter night when her sibling was killed, I decided to see to it that she wouldn't go down that same road her mother had traveled. I choked back my feelings, made a sort of peace with the woman who had simultaneously killed her own child and my love for her, and conciously chose to stay with her.

Perhaps these last ten years are my penance for living in sin in the first place. Maybe it's for not taking more forceful action to save the life of my child. I don't know, nor do any of you, though some will undoubtably quote scripture or civil/criminal law in an attempt to prove you do. All I know is that I live reasonably comfortably with a woman I can't love and a daughter I can't confess to. Because of insurance considerations we were married a few years ago, but we sleep in separate rooms, go to different churches and have different friends. We share a house, some bills, a daughter and a lifetime of distrust.

Pro-abortionists try to de-humanize the offending 'fetus' in an attempt to claim that no one is hurt by abortion. Pro-lifers claim that a baby is killed and a woman is emotionally scarred. But others suffer too.

Thanks for sharing so openly. When you open up a window to let others see your vulnerability, we identify with that--for we are weak also. You can't reverse the tape & change things. But I know the Lord can still use anything to redeem a life, a marriage, and relationships.

opinions based upon hearsay rather than firsthand experience

Seeing an aborted baby in a casket in 1989 indeed helped to frame my worldview. Twelve years later, picking up my miscarried son (11 weeks gestation) off of the bathroom floor reinforced it. Yes, tis too bad that too many folks base their worldviews upon sloppy sloganeering and not the reality of humanity.

Thank you for saying the things that needed to be said on this subject. As a crisis pregnancy worker for several years I can say that many women changed their minds about aborting. We also picketed clinics, and prayed fervently for the souls of the abortionists that they would repent. It was also heartbreaking to talk with some who had been through an abortion, and witness their regret and self condemnation.

Do you think Jesus would transfer his assets to His wife's accounts to hide from the law? I doubt it.

"Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

First off, the abortion industry should keep its muffs off the pre-born child. Dismemberment of God's worksmanship in the womb is not recommended in light of the final judgment.

Secondly, an attack upon God's creation is an attack upon Jesus, Himself (Matt. 25:37-46).

Thirdly, an attack upon those who would protect the innocent (the church of Jesus Christ) is an attack upon Jesus, Himself ("Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me " (Acts 9:4)

Fourthly, the assets of a Christian protecting the pre-born belong not to Caesar or a subsidiary of Caesar (e.g. Planned Parenthood), but rather to God (Ps.24:1: "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it"). We cannot always know where our $ spent is going to be used, but when we can trace it precisely we should consider the injunction not to "share in the sins of others" (1 Tim. 5:22). If I had a babysitter who was taking $ to pay for drugs & I could trace the connection, I would do what I could to cut the bridge between my wallet & her drug habit in the name of (tough) loving that person. Remember, love rejoices in the truth (1 Cor. 13:6).

While this man has broken the law, and ought to pay a price for his crime, that price should not be economic ruin. He ought to pay a small fine, or perhaps for a repeated offense spend a few days in jail - as is the case with other protest movements in this country. The problem is that the pro-life cause has been singled out for special attention, like application of RICO statutes, that do not fit the crime but are instead intended to stifle dissent.

Bingo. How many anti-war or save-the-spotted-owl malefactors have you seen commit far more egregious acts (destruction of property; booby-trapping trees) than Randy Alcorn and get a small fine, a few days in stir, or . . . a stern admonition never to do it again?

RICO's author, G. Robert Blakey, has often commented on the zealous misapplication of his statute:

Ironically, one of the chief framers of the RICO legislation suggested the [initial Scheidler] verdict is inappropriate. G. Robert Blakey, a law professor at Notre Dame University, said the act was designed to thwart organized crime and drug cartels.

“This case is a nightmare for anyone who wants to picket,” Blakey told the Associated Press. He said pro-life organizations, which do not profit financially from the public witnessing against abortion, should never be subject to anti-racketeer legislation.