Plans Under Way for Christianizing the Enemy

NewHouse News Service ^ | 3/26/03 | Mark O'Keefe

[Lee Heggy]

"What categorization of Christian is older than "evangels"?

Below is a brief description of the sect I refer to. They have been persecuted by the Islamic majority almost to the point of extinction. Since they reject Paul's version of Christianity and Islam and Jewish theology I suppose they really are not what we'd call 'Christian' But the sect is very old and stems from the times of Jesus. Some think they may be the remnants of the original Church of Jerusalem who were drive out of Palestine by the new Christians represented by Paul and his ilk.

"The original evangels (bearers of the "Good News") were Jesus and other Jews who spread the Messianic message of Jesus as Savior. An evangel[ical] is exactly the same today as he was 2000 years ago."

I think you have Paul confused with Jesus. The last thing Jesus would wish as a confirmed Jew would be to commit the ultimate blasphemy of claiming godhood in order to start a religion based upon his personal divinity. Paul, on the other hand, would say or do anything to achieve his ends. He was even referred to by the apostles,(notably James the Just) as 'the spouter of lies'.

"doing the Lord's work, which has been commanded by God. And the world is a sweeter place as a result of it."

A Conquistadore by any other name is still just that.


Mandaeans

A small religious sect in Iran and S Iraq, who maintain an ancient belief resembling that of Gnosticism and that of the Parsis . They are also known as Christians of St. John, Nasoraeans, Sabians, and Subbi. A few Mandaeans survive, some near the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, others in the area of Shushtar, Iran, and in cities of Asia Minor. Their customs and writings indicate early Christian, perhaps pre-Christian, origin. Their system of astrology resembles those of ancient Babylonia and the cults of the Magi in the last centuries B.C. Their emanation system and their dualism suggest a Gnostic origin, but unlike the Gnostics, they abhor asceticism and emphasize fertility. Although some of their practices were influenced by Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, they reject all three. The Mandaeans respect St. John the Baptist because of his baptizing, since their principal concern is ritual cleanliness and their chief rite is frequent baptism. The custom, which antedated the baptisms of St. John, stems from the belief that living water is the principle of life. They have a communion sacrament, which is offered for the remembrance of the dead and resembles Parsi ritual meals. The origin of the Mandaeans is not known; it is conjectured that they came from a mountainous region N of Babylonia and Persia, where they settled in ancient times; however, more recent scholarship places their origin in Palestine or Syria. Their chief holy book, the Ginza Rba, like their other books, is a compendium of cosmology, cosmogony, prayers, legends, and rituals, written at various times and often contradictory.

[HumanaeVitae]

You know, I've gotten to the point where I've concluded that nothing is going to be resolved by these kind of conversations between Protestants and Catholics. I've pretty much sworn off any further debate about it.

[Cronos]

I'm a Catholic but I don't really care WHICH Mainstream Christian sect the Iraqis come back to, as long as it is, quote Christian

[tracer]

"How did "marrying" someone for "time and eternity" keep them from being alone on the frontier?"

Because the frontier and eternity are two different places. The former held/holds dangerous weather, social isolation, disease, injury, wild animals, starvation, human predators.etc.

Those women sealed for time and eternity to men who had died would be (plurally) married for time only, i.e., "till deasth do they part."

The latter promises to be infinitely more hospitable, to say the very least, and will be the place where spouses, other family members, friends, and, IMO, beloved pets will be reunited amid great joy.

The LDS Church and its members do not hold the view that Heaven is a "Mormons-Only" place. Indeed, the Church, having fulfilled its purpose, apparently and will cease to exist as an earthly organization with the arrival of the Savior and the beginning of His Millenial reign, during which time a great deal will be sorted out without the interference of Satan.

I expect and sincerely hope that you and yours will experience this joy on the other side of the veil. I hope to be worthy to see you there. All the best, and thanks for the question...

[tracer]

"No, but a whole pack of your compatriots has sought to have us all banned for asking any questions about your religion or your leaders. I honestly don't know anything about attempts to have anyone "banned" for "asking questions" or for any other reason.

I must observe, however, that I have witnessed a tremendous amount of inexplicable hate and falsehood spewed forth by many whenever anything related to "Mormons" appears on the FR.

Indeed, I have never attacked or even criticised or called into question anyone's faith, on the FR or elsewhere, and, as many Roman Catholic and other FReepers may have noticed, I (FWIW) have defended against the attacks of other FReepers both Roman Catholics and those of other faiths.

I also and have praised and even expressed personal thanks for the good works for the righteous works of the many priests, nuns, brothers, missionaries and others engaged in the Lord's work here on earth.

I have sought here to clarify misconceptions and refute outright and vicious lies. And I have rebuked some individuals, betimes too often and with too much force perhaps, those who have spewed venom and lies at or about the "Mormon" Church as well as those directed at Roman Catholicism, Judaism, "Born-Again" Christianity, Sikhism, and many others.

One last word and sincere suggestion to all who read this: if you would know the truth about a religious denomination or even an individual, speak to friends of same and do not expect to learn the truth from enemies thereof.

All the best, and I hope that you have or will find comfort, strength, edification, truth, faith, hope as you seek to develop your relationship with God on whatever path you choose.....

[tracer]

RussellStevens wrote:

"I guess the LDS Church must be doing something really right if the adversary must work so hard to persecute it."

You replied:

"Either that, or it's doing something really wrong when so many complete strangers keep trying to get its members' attention to say the history and doctrines don't check out."

The very truth of the matter, as you someday will discover, is that things "check out" only when the whole picture has been proclaimed and taught by those having proper authority and then confirmed to the prayerful listener by the Holy Ghost.

The Lord's promise and assurance that you rightly should seek concerning such matters can be found in James 1:5.

You surely will not learn the truth about any church -- or individual, for that matter -- by feasting on the words of those who are the enemies thereof.

With respect to the fact that "complete strangers keep trying to get its members' attention," you or anyone else have no chance of doing any such thing by hurling lies, falsehoods, inaccuracies, legends, apocrypha, hearsay, and venom at those who have not done such unto you.

I cannot fathom how it is that you are so confident that you are exceedingly "right" and that the some 12 million (and exponentially growing -- while so much of the rest of Christendom sadly is dwindling) members of the Church worldwide are ignorantly or knowingly living an evil lie?

Finally, it is only fair that you state the priesthood authority by which you deliver your exhortations and proclamations to so many. According to the Bible (in Hebrews and elsewhere), such must be either that of Aaron or Melchizedek....

[tracer]

ROTFLMFUO!!!! Thanks ever so much for the image of the "historical marker." It was a real "hit" with my fellow "religious zealots" after church yesterday!!!

I have printed it out and, with your kind permission, may well frame copies of it -- and screen it onto T-shirts (to be worn over that, you know, "funny underwear") -- as gifts for next Christmas, which, as you know, we "pretend" to celebrate every year to throw off "true Christians" such as you. It is indeed a real "keeper."

BTW, is it real, or merely a product of of your creative mind? If real, I will make it a point to be photographed standing next to it the next time I'm in Missouri working with the Garden of Eden Development Team, just to "piss off (our) more reasonable neighbors."

Thanks again for the laughs. Easter, as you can well imagine, is always a difficult day for us "sanctimonious pricks," and yesterday was no exception.......

Yours in Gumby,

tracer 8~) 8~)

[Alex Murphy]

With respect to the fact that "complete strangers keep trying to get its members' attention," you or anyone else have no chance of doing any such thing by hurling lies, falsehoods, inaccuracies, legends, apocrypha, hearsay, and venom at those who have not done such unto you.

And apparently no chance when using direct quotations from LDS-created literature, either. I quoted you a pro-LDS study re Joe's wives, which directly contradicted the church legend re "leave no spinster behind", and you chose to ignore both me and the pro-LDS author of that source.

I cannot fathom how it is that you are so confident that you are exceedingly "right" and that the some 12 million (and exponentially growing -- while so much of the rest of Christendom sadly is dwindling) members of the Church worldwide are ignorantly or knowingly living an evil lie?

Then maybe you need to re-think that there's something behind my confidence that you ought to know about :)

Finally, it is only fair that you state the priesthood authority by which you deliver your exhortations and proclamations to so many. According to the Bible (in Hebrews and elsewhere), such must be either that of Aaron or Melchizedek....

Tell you what - I'll see your "only fair" complaint and raise it.

You need to first state a) whether you're a male or female, and if female b) whether you're married or unmarried. Females can hold neither of the LDS priesthoods, therefore if you're female you have no place questioning my authority in this matter. If you're a married woman, then you should be directing these complaints through your husband, and I should be speaking with him and not you. He should be exercising his authority and judgement over what you're speaking here anyway.

[tracer]

Comment #270 Removed by Moderator

Don't blame me!!! 8~)

[showme_the_Glory]

Truth is Truth......

feelings, traditions, and history do not influence it.

You mean, let people create their own truth. Well how left of you to mention it.

[fishtank]

Is Jesus your 100% Savior or just your fifty-fifty Savior?

[HumanaeVitae]

Fishtank, before we get into this...am I going to convince you not to be an evangelical?

[HumanaeVitae]

You haven't answered my question, so I'll just go ahead and say that you're not going to convince me not to be a Catholic. I looked at Protestantism before I became a Catholic and rejected it for reasons I won't go into here. Suffice to say it didn't make a lot of sense to me from a theological standpoint.

[restornu]

How chauvinism of you bet you never held the preisthood!

Nor do you have the courage to answer!

Women don't have to hold the priesthood to talk about it!

I did not know you were so prejudiced!

[Revelation 911]

therefore if you're female you have no place questioning my authority in this matter. If you're a married woman, then you should be directing these complaints through your husband, and I should be speaking with him and not you. He should be exercising his authority and judgement over what you're speaking here anyway.

LOL

[Revelation 911]

Suffice to say it didn't make a lot of sense to me from a theological standpoint.

and intercessory prayer to Mary does ?

[HumanaeVitae]

Revelation, I don't know if you noticed, but there are about 4,000 abortions per day in this country, a convicted child rapist just won the Oscar and the Supreme Court is on the verge of ratifying homosexual sex in the State of Texas.

I think there are other fish to fry these days.

[Revelation 911]

I think there are other fish to fry these days.

and I dont disagree - however you took a cheap shot and I responded with same -

now, do you want to play nice?.

Perhaps we should have concerned ourselves with those subjects at the onset - before your cheap shot

[HumanaeVitae]

Plenty of cheap shots going the other way as well. Read any Catholic-oriented thread.

[Revelation 911]

Plenty of cheap shots going the other way as well. Read any Catholic-oriented thread.

So thats the justification ? I thought Christians are to be separate and distinct from the "world" - seems to me you and I are very much part of it -

With that - I wish you a wonderful day