SECY RUMSFELD: How did we allow? Now, thats really a wonderful, amazing statement. No, let me...
MR. RUSSERT: But, how are we...
SECY RUMSFELD: ...just say a word, here.
MR. RUSSERT: No, no. Wait, wait.
SECY RUMSFELD: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
MR. RUSSERT: No, let me be precise, cause its an important point.
SECY RUMSFELD: But we didnt allow it. It happened. And thats what happens when you go from a dictatorship with repressed order, police state, to something that is going to be different. Theres a transition period, and no one is in control. There are periods wherethere was still fighting in Baghdad. We dont allow bad things to happen. Bad things do happen in life and people do loot. Weve seen that in the United States. Its happened in every country. Its a shame when it happens. Ill bet you anything that if theywhen order is restored, and we have a more permissive environment, that there will be opportunities to ask people to return some of those things that were taken. Weve already found people returning supplies to hospitals.
MR. RUSSERT: What the heads of the museum will say is that they actually asked for the U.S. to help protect it, and that the U.S. declined. Is that accurate?
SECY RUMSFELD: Oh, my goodness. Look, I have no idea. Weve got troops on the ground, and who do you know who he asked, and whether his assignment that moment was to guard a hospital instead? Those kinds of things are so anecdotal. And it always breaks your heart to see destruction of things. But...
MR. RUSSERT: The Red Cross said hospitals were also looted. Does that surprise you? I mean, its one thing for the Iraqis to ransack, loot Saddams palaces, and steal his faucets, its quite another to loot their own museum and their own hospitals. Did that surprise you?
SECY RUMSFELD: Surprise me? I dont know. Disorder happens every time theres a transition. We saw it in Eastern European countries when they moved from the Communist system to a free system. Weve seen it in Los Angeles, here in our own country, weve seen it in Detroit, weve seen it in city after city when there was a difficulty. And it always breaks your heart. Youre always sorry to see it.
And it isnt something that someone allows or doesnt allow. Its something that happens. We know that peoplethere are people who do bad things. There are people who steal from hospitals in the United States. So does it surprise me that people went into a hospital and did something? I guess it doesnt surprise me. Its a shame. Its too bad. And were trying to get medical supplies in to the hospitals that were robbed, and were doing it, and were having good success at it.