Sen. Rockefeller: Iraq Democracy is "Pipe Dream" and Not Desirable; They Can't Handle It

Sunday News-Register (Wheeling, WV) | April 13, 2003 | Justin Anderson

[mountaineer]

As leaders from nations around the globe begin to ponder the type of government post-war Iraq will enjoy, in an interview with the Sunday News-Register, U.S. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., expressed hesitation regarding the possibility of a viable form of a democratic political structure in postwar Iraq.

"The idea of democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream," he said. "Iraq has never been a democracy. One of America's problems is that we are focusing on Saddam and not what is the country of Iraq. We tend to focus on individuals."

To Rockefeller and others in the federal government, the goal of stabilization and normalization is more achievable and far more urgent to the welfare of the Iraqi people. Following regime change, the office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance will be responsible in the initial phases for helping Iraqis restore the delivery of essential services like water, basic medical care and electricity.

If a democracy succeeded in Iraq, it would be a 20-30 year process, Rockefeller said. "(Democracy) is not desirable at this point. The (Iraqi) people are not ready for a democracy."

It will be difficult to win the trust of the Iraqi people after the war. By and large, civilian Iraqis live a tribal existence, Rockefeller said. A mistrust, at least on the parts of the Shiite Muslims in the south of the country, began to flourish during the first Gulf War.

"The Shiites are very slow to respond," Rockefeller said. "(President George H.W.) Bush encouraged them to rebel against Saddam back in 1991 and we just walked away. They were slaughtered."

The Shiites and other tribal factions of the Iraqi civilian population are living in a "very competitive environment," Rockefeller said.

"Most of them are just trying to eke out an existence of poverty," he said. "That kind of existence doesn't breed well for democratic behavior."

President George W. Bush and Biritish Prime Minister Tony Blair had a 20-hour visit in Belfast, Northern Ireland, last week to discuss the future of an Iraq without Saddam. One of the objectives is the introduction of a democratic state.

"I really don't know how much (Bush) knows about the country," Rockefeller said. "I've read books on it and otherwise researched it. I think that's pretty much what youhave to do to begin to understand a culture. It's not just a question of where your tanks go."

[Captain Kirk]

I would prefer that Haiti, the Congo, and and Kosovo have representative republics too. That doesn't mean that I subscribe to the utopian ideal that it is the responsibility of the American military and taxpayers to bring it to them. We need to turn over authority to an interim Iraqi government as soon as Saddam's forces are crushed and get the hell out. Conservatives are becoming hopeless advocates of Clintonian nation building.

[mountaineer]

why don't you support application of this dream ...

How do you know what I do or don't support? I haven't mentioned Kosovo, Haiti or Afghanistan.

[Captain Kirk]

I apologize for putting words in your mouth. Do you support application of this dream through U.S. blood and treasure in these countries? Cheers.

[headsonpikes]

"Of course the thing to remember is that Rockefeller

feels the same way about us."

That more or less gets to the heart of the matter, doesn't it?

[Captain Kirk]

Well...then why aren't you on hind legs demanding that the U.S. implement your ideal in Kosovo, Haiti, Somalia, and elsewhere? Oh...don't forget about Afghanistan where warlords rule and the heroin crop has increased to new highs. Wouldn't it be "racist" to believe otherwise?

[jetson]

MAY WE ALL ROT IN HELL IF WE EVER LET THINGS LIKE THIS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN!

[Pappy Smear]

I still hold a personal grudge against him. About 10 years ago, I was at a BigBrothers/Big Sisters event at a park, and he showed up. He or his knucklehead aide, locked their keys in his car. I had some wire in my truck, and I "broke" into his car for him.

The mofo couldn't slip me or our organization a fiver or something. I did get a thank you, at least. Plus his aide was by us, snapping pictures, while he was standing next to me while I was breaking into his car. I called his local office the next day, asking if I could get a photo with me and the senator. They said they didn't have any photos.

My @ss. They didn't want a photo out there with the doorknob locked out of his car.

[mountaineer]

If Qatar - Iraq's geographic, cultural and religious neighbor - can move toward a more democratic form of governance, I hope and believe Iraq can, too. Our destruction of Saddam's government will provide the Iraqi people with that choice. They haven't had any choices for a long time.

I will not be commenting on Wilsonian or Clintonian nation-building dreams in Haiti, thanks, because - as the poster of this thread - I think that's not the subject.

[Ryan1983]

You've never been to West Virginia, and your "research" is watching The Beverly Hillbillies?

Let me assure you that Jay Rockefeller has always been viewed in our state as a "carpetbagger." We, the proud citizens of West Virginia, are well aware that the Democrats have had a strangle hold on our State. (Flashback-- we WANT change, that's why GW won our electoral votes)

To generalize all West Virginian's as "inbred hillbillies, coal miners, and mountain men," only reflects that the depth of your shallowness is infinite. However, if you should ever be in our State, we would still treat you kindly, feed you, comfort you and keep you safe.

Jessica Lynch is from Wirt County, West Virginia. Do you have the nerve to refer to her as an inbred hillbilly? You should be ashamed of yourself.

[F.J. Mitchell]

THe Beverly Hillbillies, were from the Ozarks, down in Clinton country. The Hatfields and McCoys came from the WVA Kentucky border area. Not that I'm calling them hillbillies mind you, too many of them still around to be that foolish.

[RWG]

"The idea of democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream," he said...and that is exactly the way the democRATS view the people of this country particularly the democRAT base. Consider that NAFTA was opposed by unions but it went through anyway. Consider that diversity is forced on the country but the democRAT party will not put a black in a position of authority or confirm an hispanic for the court.

[Pappy Smear]

I didn't write the post you are complaining about, but methinks you need to turn your sarcasm detector on.

[wardaddy]

It's culture, not race. Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, and Assyrians are the same race as 80-85% of Americans including the writer.

If any country in the ME can reach some sort of representative Republic, it might be Iraq....maybe.

[Captain Kirk]

Haiti, Kosovo, and Afghanistan are precisely the issues. If the U.S. failed to build nations there, why do you think it will succeed here? After all, you seem to be calling for significant investments of American blood and treasure to accomplish this goal or are you? I do not reject the possibility of democracy in the Arab world but when it comes it will have to be through a slow process (a la Qater) and will have to be made by the people directly concerned otherwise it will not take.

Germany and Japan, of course, were different cases. Both had democratic traditions (Germany prior to 1933) and Japan (prior to the late 1920s). Both had market economies and relatively cosmpolitan populations. They would have embraced democracy in the late 1940s on their own.

BTW, I do not reject the possibilities of an interim government in Iraq embracing democracy. I just don't think it is our affair. Our actions (which in theory were not based on Wilsonianism) have given them a shot. Now...it is up to them.

[Timmy]

Well...then why aren't you on hind legs demanding that the U.S. implement your ideal in Kosovo, Haiti, Somalia, and elsewhere? Oh...don't forget about Afghanistan where warlords rule and the heroin crop has increased to new highs. Wouldn't it be "racist" to believe otherwise?

Well, Kosovo, Haiti and Somalia are UN missions, which lefties like you love. Haiti and Somalia, of course, have already been abandoned by the UN, who believe as you do. The US is trying to bring democracy to Afghanistan, but it will take a while, as there has been no organized government in that country for decades. That doesn't mean they are too stupid or inferior to democratize. Only liberals are that arrogant.

BTW, I guess you think the Japanese and Germans, two peoples with no history of democracy, were also too "inferior" to embrace democracy?

[Captain Kirk]

Did you feel the same way when Clinton tried to bring democracy to Haiti and Kosovo or were you a "bigot" then?

[The Hon. Galahad Threepwood]

sat·ire
NOUN: 1a. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. b. The branch of literature constituting such works. See synonyms at caricature. 2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.

[BradyLS]

I really don't think that the Honorable Threepwood genuinely meant that West Virginians are in fact those things. I think he was being sarcastic.