Sen. Rockefeller: Iraq Democracy is "Pipe Dream" and Not Desirable; They Can't Handle It

Sunday News-Register (Wheeling, WV) | April 13, 2003 | Justin Anderson

[mountaineer]

As leaders from nations around the globe begin to ponder the type of government post-war Iraq will enjoy, in an interview with the Sunday News-Register, U.S. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., expressed hesitation regarding the possibility of a viable form of a democratic political structure in postwar Iraq.

"The idea of democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream," he said. "Iraq has never been a democracy. One of America's problems is that we are focusing on Saddam and not what is the country of Iraq. We tend to focus on individuals."

To Rockefeller and others in the federal government, the goal of stabilization and normalization is more achievable and far more urgent to the welfare of the Iraqi people. Following regime change, the office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance will be responsible in the initial phases for helping Iraqis restore the delivery of essential services like water, basic medical care and electricity.

If a democracy succeeded in Iraq, it would be a 20-30 year process, Rockefeller said. "(Democracy) is not desirable at this point. The (Iraqi) people are not ready for a democracy."

It will be difficult to win the trust of the Iraqi people after the war. By and large, civilian Iraqis live a tribal existence, Rockefeller said. A mistrust, at least on the parts of the Shiite Muslims in the south of the country, began to flourish during the first Gulf War.

"The Shiites are very slow to respond," Rockefeller said. "(President George H.W.) Bush encouraged them to rebel against Saddam back in 1991 and we just walked away. They were slaughtered."

The Shiites and other tribal factions of the Iraqi civilian population are living in a "very competitive environment," Rockefeller said.

"Most of them are just trying to eke out an existence of poverty," he said. "That kind of existence doesn't breed well for democratic behavior."

President George W. Bush and Biritish Prime Minister Tony Blair had a 20-hour visit in Belfast, Northern Ireland, last week to discuss the future of an Iraq without Saddam. One of the objectives is the introduction of a democratic state.

"I really don't know how much (Bush) knows about the country," Rockefeller said. "I've read books on it and otherwise researched it. I think that's pretty much what youhave to do to begin to understand a culture. It's not just a question of where your tanks go."

[CyberAnt]

ON FOX with Tony Snow - just now!

Dr. Maya Hussain, who has lived in USA for 20 years, just said on TV, that "freedom is the natural yearning of all people and to say that democracy is for some and not for others - IS RACIST"!!

Finally, the democrats ranting is called for what it is!!!

[NonValueAdded]

And another thing ... it was just pointed out on FNC that the people of Kurdistan have been successfully adopting democratic institutions for many years now. That gives lie to the senator's [small "s" deliberate] "not ready for democracy" comments.

[wardaddy]

Actually, the slave revolt which started in 1791 and lasted till 1803 was fairly successful in the beginning over large parts of Haiti. It was pretty bloody from the getgo (not unusual for a slave revolt I'd surmise). Then a series of intrigue commenced between Tousssaint, Dessalines, and Christophe amongst others all rivaling against one another and allying with surviving whites and mulattos and being invaded or interfered with by Robespierre, Napolean and the English and even the Spaniards. In the end when it was essentially over by 1804...Toussaint was finished and all but a handful of whites were gone or dead....as well as a slew of mulattos who had allied with the whites and many africans as well.

And yes the French tried to restore slavery twice after promising Toussaint they would not and that did prompt more and more reprisals.

There were also a number of massacres in parts of Haiti against mulattos as late as the early 1900s in places like Jacmel and Jeremy which were always mulatto strongholds and rather remote places btw. The mulattos of course have done their fair share as well.

It is a most unusual place. I have never lived anywhere where shades of color are so delineated....Brasil has a bit of that.
The Desnoes family in Jamaica who founded the Red Stripe beer company amongst many other products were originally whites who fled from the slave revolt in Haiti in the 1790s...I was "involved" with one of the greatx4 granddaughters back in the 80s. She was a professor at Barnard in NYC. Their family history was fascinating.

[mountaineer]

I can see I should have included Condoleezza Rice's comments in my post (part of the sections I omitted because I was getting tired of typing):

"(The Iraqi Interim Authority) is an enabler ... for the Iraqi people to be involved in the administration of their own country," said National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice in a recent speech at the White House. "And it becomes the first stage or a basis on which you can begin to build a representative government that can be then affirmed by the Iraqi people."

.... Rice said the IIA will not be a coalition-imposed provisional government. Rather, one emerging from the "broad base that it must be ... people outside (Iraq), people inside, people who have for decades fought for a free Iraq and people who are being freed - it's got to be representative of ethnic and religious groups in the country, and it has to be broadly based"

_____________

So a representative republic cannot be created overnight. Does that mean we shouldn't even try to help the Iraqi people create a government that treats them as free human beings. Again, what is it about freedom and self-determination that so offends John D. Rockefeller IV?

[CyberAnt]

Hmmm? Could you run that by me one more time ... I have no idea what your position is. If you disagree - that's fine!

[USNBandit]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Unfortunately, it seems the Senator does not believe in some of the core beliefs that formed our nation. I'm glad our founding fathers didn't share his beliefs.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

"Most of them are just trying to eke out an existence of poverty," he said. "That kind of existence doesn't breed well for democratic behavior."

Of course the thing to remember is that Rockefeller feels the same way about us.

Yep, you got it...

Does he also mean to say an Iraqi 'doesn't breed well' like his blue blood family? Or, does he mean they could never learn Democratic behavior? (I think his use of "democratic" really is a typo by the publication, Democratic is more accurate...)

[nanny]

If these folks can't run a civil society in their home country, why on earth do we think that they will help us to maintain one in the West once they flood to the US and Europe?

A very good question!!!

[Captain Kirk]

I am merely pointing out that Japan and Germany, unlike Iraq, had recent democratic tradtions to build on. Hence, I do not think that comparisons between Germany/Japan in 1945 and Iraq in 2003 are valid.

My position is that we should not impose either a MacArthur-style occupation (e.g. Wilsonian nation building_ or ask the UN to intervene. Instead, I believe that the best solution is to allow the Iraqis to set up an Iraq interim coalition government and then (as soon as Saddam's troops are quashed) turn over authority to this government on a quick time table of withdrawal.

[Captain Kirk]

Okay. then does that mean you want U.S. troops to impose this theory on Haiti and Kosovo. If you are consistent, your answer would be yes.

[Bonaparte]

[Rockefeller]: "Iraq has never been a democracy."

Neither had Turkey been a democracy in 1924. And Russia, which had no prior experience of democracy, has been functioning as one for the past 10 years. The year 2000 Russian elections were free and fair in a contest involving multiple political parties and plenty of free speech. Just two examples among many.

[Captain Kirk]

"We" have already smashed Saddam. If that isn't "help" I don't know what is. Now...the ball should be put in the Iraqis court.

[miss marmelstein]

Of course he knows best about it! He "read some books on it..." What a jerk.

[Captain Kirk]

Both Turkey and Russia's democracy are homegrown and build on indigenous traditions. Neither was imposed by U.S. "nation builders."

[mountaineer]

According to Ms. Rice, it is the intent of the Bush Administration to "put the ball in the Iraqis' court."

[Captain Kirk]

I hope she is right...The best way to begin the process is to allow an interim government, however. An interim government should conduct elections, write a consitutiion, etc.

[thoughtomator]

Iraqis have the experiences of the Kurds, and longtime influences from representative forms of government in Turkey, Israel, and Iran (yes even Iran) to draw from. They will not be without points of reference. And of course, the USA and UK and Australia are in there on the ground to advise them firsthand. Finally, they will have their own humanity, which naturally yearns for freedom, to guide them.

History has shown that the chances are on the side of any people who match the desire for freedom with the opportunity to pursue it.

[RightWhale]

Does Rockefeller think America is ready for Democracy?

[Captain Kirk]

Again, all of those examples (including the Kurds and Turks) were homegrown not imposed by foreign nation builders. I hope you are right....but, in my view, the best hope for it to happen will come from a Iraqi government, not foreign imposition. Hence, why not allow the Iraqis to set up an interim coalition government to carry out the process?

If this government asks for U.S. advice fine, but it should be up to them not us.

[thoughtomator]

I agree. They won't learn how to do it properly unless they are allowed to make their own mistakes.