[cinFLA]

If you can't state at least where going too far would be, honestly, you just need to consider de-Freeping yourself for being completely unable to honestly discuss a question that could not be more on topic.

Never said the government is perfect. But YOUR side seems to see it as completely evil. It is time fore YOUR side to YOU are going to far and consider de-Freeping yourself for being completely unable to honestyl discuss a question that could not be more on topic.

[eno_]

But YOUR side seems to see it as completely evil.

No, not completely evil, just not to be trusted outside of a tightly controlled set of constitutional limits.

Can you argue the government is trustable enough to be allowed to stretch or overstep those limits? Are there any signs that individuals like Horiuchi or Braga are being brought to justice - or any other signs that overstepping bears a price? And is there any reason to think a future Clinton or Clintonesqe presidency would not abuse Patriot Act powers?

[LibertarianInExile]

My side is different from yours, certainly. It'd be nice to see you delineate exactly how that is true instead of pour out vituperative insults--there are certainly folks on both sides of constitutionalism that failed to answer my post's question. So let me ask you again: what exactly would be going too far for you, in terms of the 1st, 2nd, and 5th amendments to the U.S. Constitution?