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Doctors Might Be Treating Saddam In Bunker
Yahoo/USA Today ^ | 3-25-2003 | Jack Kelley

Posted on 03/25/2003 6:14:21 PM PST by blam

Doctors might be treating Saddam in bunker

Tue Mar 25, 6:00 AM ET

Jack Kelley USA TODAY

KUWAIT CITY -- CIA operatives and Army commandos who are hunting for Saddam Hussein believe that the Iraqi leader could be in a Baghdad bunker receiving medical attention from military doctors, U.S. intelligence and military sources said Monday.

''We know we hit him. We know he was wounded'' Thursday in a missile and bomb attack on a compound south of Baghdad, said a U.S. intelligence official involved in tracking Saddam. ''We also believe he hasn't left Baghdad.''

The assessment came on a day in which Saddam gave his second address on Iraqi TV since that attack, which U.S. officials said was aimed at ''decapitating'' his regime in the opening hours of the war. Saddam appeared more robust than the pale, shaken figure who was shown a few hours after the attack. He taunted coalition forces in referring to battles in southern Iraq .

''Have you found what the devil that besets your soul promised you?'' he asked, imploring Iraqis to fight coalition forces. ''Cut their throats and even their fingers. . . . We will make it as painful as we can. . . . Victory is imminent.''

U.S. intelligence officials said they believe the person in the latest video was Saddam. Even so, they and the White House said the tape could have been recorded before the war began and didn't necessarily prove that he was in control of his army. On the tape, Saddam praises his army's 51st Division. But some troops in the 51st have surrendered in southern Iraq, U.S. military and Kuwaiti government sources said.

Publicly, U.S. officials say they aren't sure whether Saddam is alive. But air attacks in Baghdad and elsewhere continue to make Saddam's residences and command centers a priority, suggesting an assumption that he is alive.

Intelligence and military sources said intercepted communications, captured Iraqi generals, spy satellites and aircraft are being used to try to track Saddam's movements. It's a difficult task, the sources said, because he can move from bunker to bunker via underground tunnels in Baghdad.

But two intelligence gains have given U.S. officials more hope. Intelligence sources said Delta Force commandos in Baghdad have tapped Saddam's underground phone lines, and said the CIA has recruited an Iraqi official who knows where Saddam sleeps.

Some of the bunkers are 300 feet underground and are beneath mosques, hospitals and schools to keep coalition forces from bombing them, U.S. intelligence officials said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bunker; decapitation; doctors; might; saddam; treating; warlist
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To: gov_bean_ counter
Roger that!! ;-)
41 posted on 03/26/2003 3:44:45 AM PST by katze
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To: Lando Lincoln
You make a good point. Heard on FNC the bunker busters can go through 4 ft of concrete; OTOH, also heard the bunker is reinforced with steel. I say about 3 bunker busters and a MOAB might be in order, if intelligence is that he is still there.
42 posted on 03/26/2003 3:47:57 AM PST by katze
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To: dinok
"saddam will loose eventually...I have no doubt."

It is spelled lose. L-O-S-E!! Loose means not tight or to let go of.

If you are going to rant incoherently, please try to spell correctly!

Thank you.

43 posted on 03/26/2003 6:34:39 AM PST by wireman
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To: wireman
At least the poster didn't call someone a "facist" (fascist).
I hate that.
44 posted on 03/26/2003 6:47:42 AM PST by Constitution Day (An organizer of Raleigh's Rally For America [without any Clear Channel Cash])
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To: dinok
Thanks for brightening up my day.
45 posted on 03/26/2003 6:55:53 AM PST by shattered
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To: wireman
Shirley you're not series, are you?
46 posted on 03/26/2003 6:58:21 AM PST by Hatteras (The Thundering Herd Of Turtles ROCK!)
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To: wireman
Seriesly, that was hugh!
47 posted on 03/26/2003 6:59:49 AM PST by Hatteras (The Thundering Herd Of Turtles ROCK!)
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To: blam
I heard the other day 'Doctors without Boarders' are in IRAQ
48 posted on 03/26/2003 7:28:00 AM PST by BobbyDJ (qsteps)
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To: wireman
When you can't debate my points...you go after my spelling...

Wow...I'm cowered by your anal intelect.

49 posted on 03/26/2003 2:48:11 PM PST by dinok
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To: shattered
..."Thanks for brightening up my day."...

Anytime
50 posted on 03/26/2003 2:49:08 PM PST by dinok
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To: dinok
"I'm cowered by your anal intelect." Hmm...

I am so sorry to see that you failed the English as a second language course!

51 posted on 03/26/2003 2:52:48 PM PST by wireman
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To: dinok
Ah yes, the sky is falling. After all, we've been in this war for soooooooo long now. What is it, 5 whole days and it's not over yet?

Good grief, it's a good thing you were born into 20th century America, you'd never survive if you had been born 20 years earlier.

52 posted on 03/26/2003 3:00:03 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: nicollo
Shock and awe was presented by the pentagon "bomb them silly" crowd as the answer to everything. They convinved the administration that bombing wins wars. And the State department (dominated by college fraternity types who worship the UN and Arabs) dropped the ball in the negotiating process time and time again.
They missed France'd duplicity, they trusted Russia and China. But what they missed more than anything else was the fact that most of the world wants to see our fall because they dispise our success. We Americans have to accept that, and depelop a diplomacy that fits the situation. Not wishfull thinking..."if only the world loved us."

I want us to win this war...The President is right to prosecute it. But this is not Afghanistan. The tactics that worked there are not applicable in Iraq. The forces in theater are what was needed if the premise that Iraqis would surrender if asked. Its why there are not enough troops to secure the rear areas.
You may not want to hear this, and trust me, the people who convinced Rumsfeld and GW that this was the way to go dont want to accept it either, but reality is reality.
No, the war is not over. We have not lost...but we need to be honest with ourselves. Vietnam was lost when the officers and politicians in charge refuse to accept the fact that their srategy and tactice were not working.
All our guys need to do is get some mopre troops there to watch the rear. The guys driving gas to the tanks on the front can not fight battles with one hand and drive the trucks with the other.


By the way. I was in the Armored Cavalry in the US army, I have been through officer's school and my major in college was 20th century history (focused on warfare).

53 posted on 03/26/2003 3:04:20 PM PST by dinok
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To: dinok
You're confusing so many issues it can only lead me to think you are predisposed to see failure, just like McCaffrey and Clark. Jesus, even Hackworth is saying we'll crush 'em with what we've got in place. I don't suppose Hackworth is ignorant of our air power, either.

I know more than a few Pentagon folks who loathe Rumsfeld. They were mighty vocal about it pre- Sept. 11. I haven't heard a peep from 'em since.
54 posted on 03/26/2003 9:05:52 PM PST by nicollo (Logistiics Wins Wars)
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To: nicollo
I stand by what I said...and guess what...100,000 troops ordered to go to Iraq today. What a surprise.

55 posted on 03/27/2003 3:25:40 PM PST by dinok
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To: dinok
Looks like you can count Hackworth on your list. I'm amazed it's taken him this long to find something to whine about.

The griping is insanity and stupid, and expected. What goes completely unreported and totally misunderstood is the political element in all this. Going in, the White House needed the smallest possible force. What we have, the 4ID, included, was the reply.

Why, then, the rolling start? First, politics: the Prez couldn't wait any longer. He had to go. Next, Iraq: if there was any hope for capitulation, there had to be someone to surrender to. Then there was the need to suppress Iraqi defensive measures, the dire need to trap Saddam in Baghdad, as well as to keep the rest of the world out of Baghdad (imagine how bad the Syrian smuggling would be if we weren't on the ground?), and the equally dire need to suppress likely WMD use, exports -- and Scuds. I'm sure that Saddam never really thought we'd actually mount an invasion. He probably counted on air strikes alone, which he thought he could survive (you think?).

The ASAP and awesome march on Baghdad answered all the above. It also shocked the Iraqis to the core. There is nothing we couldn't have done by air that we're unable to do now with the 3rd ID at the doorstep. There's so much more we can do with them there. Furthermore, there's no reason we can't reinforce now, and there's many other reasons why it'd be more difficult to reinforce prior to an invasion (Turkey, Suez, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordon, etc.). With the 3rd ID up there, any pro-active objection or obstacles to the land invasion are mute. Most importantly, the Isreali card -- their ace, has been removed from the deck. The fight is contained to Iraq.

Which brings us back to the political realm: imagine the hand wringing now if we were still waiting on an invasion. With the position we have now, there's no more discussion and zero debate. It's done, we're in, and we can only win. We'll do what we have to do.

You will say that we should have had more already stationed. We didn't. We moved with what we had. Mute point. As for advance expectations: Of course we raised expectations of a quick victory. Not a good way to go to war, saying we'll lose. Neither is it a good way to get your enemy to give in in advance.

I'm glad we're alone on this thread now... so little background noise (oops, just bumped it to the top).

FRegards,
-Michael

56 posted on 03/28/2003 6:52:49 PM PST by nicollo
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To: nicollo
Interesting thinking.
I agree that in the end we had to go with what we had. But the reason we went with so little is not something that was due to time constraints.

The debate of how many troops and assets to commit started long ago. As early as last spring as I remember. There were two camps. One wanted to commit double the troops involved and another, beleive it or not, thought that they could fight the whole thing with less than 100,000 troops (navy, airforce and support troops included). That would have put a scant 10,000 trigger pullers.
The go light crowd also thinks that armor is not needed, and advocate a light truck like force that can be airlifted. Well, that sounds nice on paper, but as you this week, one anti-tank rocket on one Marine viehicle hit took out 10 Marines. The 507th Maintenance was traveling on trucks and we saw how easily they were taken out.
Now look at the lower casualty rate of the 3rd ID. They have been fighting the Sadam nuts last few days, but have taken few casualties. The 2nd brigade has no KIA at all.
Also during the sand storms, the 3rd ID was still funtional and survived the enemy attacks. The more lightly armed Marines were not so lucky.
This light versus heavy debate has been going on in our services for years. The cost cutters love it. But it costs lives...and hackworth, a snake eater Infantryman knows the value of armor.
To some, (democrats and anti-war types) this debate of more versus less, heavy versus light, is an opportunity to score cheap political points. As a conservative, I found myself torn at first. I did not want to give them ammunition. But in my heart, I am still an Army scout and cavalry guy. The troops I served with have to go to battle and they are more important to me than Rumsfeld's ego. Rumsfeld chose the go light option, and had to be dragged to the go heavier side of the table. The airforce types colluded with the go light crowd as well. The airforce has always been for strategic and deep bombing over ground support. The shock and Aew thing is not new. An Italian officer named Duhet came up with it in the 20's after World war I. The RAF tried it on Germany during World war II and it flopped. We tried it in North Vietnam and dessert Storm I. In neither case did the people or the enemy governments give up. In fact the people start to identify with their nasty governement and band together against the invader. This recent wave of Baghdad bombing is dangerous. I think Saddam is using it kill his own people and blame us. (I mean what are the chances of us hitting two market places - a place of social importance to Iraqi society?) saddam has done us a favor. He does not trust the Republican Guard formations, and as such he has placed them outside the city. Our bombing can take them out there. And it is.

In the end we will win. When the corps commander above the 3rd ID and the 1st Marines puts his career on the line to say that the enmy they are fighting, is not the one they wargamed (expected, in civilian talk) my side is not on the lunatic trail or politicly motivated.

We are all on the same side...I for one have been advocating the taking our of Saddam for years. I will not bore you with my rants when the war ended in the facion it did in 91. But we are paying the price now of the mistakes then. And GW is going to pay for his father's administration's shortsightedness.

Thanks for not going after my typing or spelling. I'm dyslectic...this took me over an hour to write.

Take care...
57 posted on 03/28/2003 8:29:46 PM PST by dinok
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To: blam

58 posted on 03/28/2003 8:32:26 PM PST by TheRedSoxWinThePennant
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To: dinok; Howlin
the UN will come around...never did

... We never expected it to and kind of hoped it wouldn't

turkey will let us in...as if that would happen

... So we're flying over

decapitation...never happened

... so we castrated him when we blew his legs off

surrender of key officers...never happened

... I don't recall anyone saying this would come in the first week

Shock and awe...no one was shocked or awed

... No clean underwear in Saddam Hussein's bunker, no new videos being put out, just reruns

But the worse of all was underestimation of the enemy and sending too few troops...

... No one underestimated anyone except for CNN; and we aren't sitting less than 50 miles outside of Baghdad because the enemy is having a good week. And Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard sure aren't sitting 50 miles outside of Washington, DC.

Rumsfeld's arrogance and Powel's naivete..

... Have Iraqi leaders holed up below ground with no income from the oil sales nor even control over it's flow, while we take over and outfit airbases north of Baghdad and several to the west and dig pipelines for fresh water from Kuwait to Iraq, move thousands inland, and bomb Iraqi targets at will and have moved so fast we need to let the troops rest while our others catch up, and during the time we can improve opur supply lines and clean up. Hussein, meanwhile, still has to stay underground.

When its time for Powell to look at the French in the eye and call them for what they are...he blinks...

... but the French are doing all the whining and crying

On the other hand Rumsfeld's mouth is his own worse enemy. "saddam is loosing control of his country..."

... Which is true, since the only part he controls is between Baghdad and Tikrit, which can hardly be called "his country." And it is "losing" not "loosing."

Tell me that when you are in Baghdad and Saddam is in chains.

... What good is Baghdad without oil money, lights, or control over the rest of the country? Hussein can't even keep his lights, radio, water and TV on without our permission.

I just hope we get some troops in there

... I don't think that all we have deployed is diplomats. It takes time to get out troops in there; the same went for the Gulf War and just about everything else we have ever done. Did you think we have Star Trek transporter technology, or something, Mr. Sunshine?

because I don't see the people rising up to throw flowers.

On FOX yesterday I saw soldiers who had been given flowers by local people. The soldiers set them by their fighting holes and I tell you, it looked very sweet, like Home Sweet Home. Yesterday there were interviews of soldiers who had been invited into local homes to share tea, and earlier there was a group of Iraqis who wanted to kill a goat and share it with troops to celebrate the liberation of their town.

They are still terrorised by Saddam's thugs

... And this many days into the Gulf War the people were terrorized, too. It hasn't even been two weeks yet. we're trying to conquer an entire country and capture or kill one of the most vicious human beings on earth in a land full of terrorists- THIS IS NOT A PANTY RAID.

To quote another freeper :

"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"

59 posted on 03/28/2003 9:11:13 PM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: dinok
Those troops were not ordered to Iraq today- that order was issued March 3, well before we even moved into Iraq.)
60 posted on 03/28/2003 9:19:27 PM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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