Hail of Gunfire and Grenades Forces Apaches to Pull Back

nytimes.com ^ | March 24, 2003 | JIM DWYER

[Destro]

Hail of Gunfire and Grenades Forces Apaches to Pull Back

By JIM DWYER

IN CENTRAL IRAQ, March 24 - With a hail of small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades, Iraqi forces downed two Apache helicopters today and forced 30 other helicopters in their brigade back to their base.

One two-member crew was unaccounted for; the other was rescued. Iraqi state television broadcast images of one downed helicopter, which appeared largely intact, and jubilant men dancing around it.

All 32 helicopters sustained some damage, occasionally slight, Army officials said, in what was a significant setback for the allies.

Fighting continued today in Nasiriya, meanwhile, after the death of 10 marines there on Sunday in the deadliest battle of the war so far.

The attack on the helicopters today surprised American Army leaders and may cause them to rethink their military strategy, which relied on the Apaches to destroy Iraq's armored divisions that ring Baghdad.

The commander of the American-led invasion of Iraq confirmed the loss of one Apache helicopter.

``The fate of the crew is uncertain right now,'' Gen. Tommy R. Franks said at a news briefing at Central Command in Qatar. We characterize that crew, two men, as missing in action.''

General Franks denied that the helicopter had been shot down by farmers, as Iraq claimed, but did not say what had forced it out of the air.

A CNN correspondent accompanying the United States Army Fifth Corps 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment, said the unit had been on a night-time combat mission targeting units of the elite Republican Guard.

The correspondent cited one of the pilots as saying they had run into a ``hornet's nest, a barrage of antiaircraft fire,'' near the city of Kerbala, 70 miles southwest of Baghdad, the closest fighting to the Iraqi capital since the war began last Thursday.

The Iraqi Information Minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, said at a news conference: ``Farmers shot down two Apaches. We showed one today and might show the second and the pilots.''

``We are holding several other American and British prisoners and we may show some of them,'' the minister said.

The Apaches use a powerful radar, called the Longbow, that directs their Hellfire missiles.

But the Apaches are suddenly coming under attack from relatively low-technology weaponry.

Saddam Hussein ``is fighting an asymmetrical warfare,'' said Brig. Gen. Benjamin Freakly, assistant commander of the 101st Division. ``This is not tank on tank fighting.''

The attack took place near the village of Abu Mustafe, north of Al Hillah, and capped a punishing 24 hours for the allied offensive.

General Freakly said that in an attack like the one on the helicopters, ``you have 10 guys lying on top of a building firing R.P.G.'s and small arms. You can go in and bomb that building and reduce it to rubble,'' but at the potential cost of many civilian lives.

The Army now may consider new tactics, such as additional close aerial bombardment, to support the Apaches as they hunt for armored divisions.

The Apaches were from the 11th Aviation Regiment, based in Germany, and are attached to the V Corps.

Sandstorms are roiling the area, blowing at 25 knots, and are likely to rise to 40 knots on Tuesday and Wednesday. At 30 knots, a meteorologist said, visibility becomes practically nil.

General Franks also said today that the tenacity of some Iraqi units, including the fedayeen, was no surprise and that American-led forces had had some ``terrific firefights.''

The Republican Guard has been hit, he said, and ``they will continue to be hit, at points and places and times that make sense to us. The effect has been very positive for us.''

[hotpotato]

You forget, we are not occupying this country. Good will post-war is going to be necessary to establish a government that isn't going to require that we be back there again in a few years because some whack job is back in control making WMD. These people *will* remember the cautions taken and recognize it already! It is part of our legacy and one we can be proud of.

[hotpotato]

You forget, we are not occupying this country. Good will post-war is going to be necessary to establish a government that isn't going to require that we be back there again in a few years because some whack job is back in control making WMD. These people *will* remember the cautions taken and recognize it already! It is part of our legacy and one we can be proud of.

[EYEWatchin]

Here! Here! Didn't we learn our lesson in Vietnam? I heard some ex-military knothead on the news today, say surrenders must be accepted in "good faith" referering to the fake surrender ambush. Have we lost our friggen minds? These damn muslims will hate us whether we kill them or not, what do we stand to gain?

[Destro]

Being anti-American is trusting of govt being pro-American is distrusting of govt. By the way all those tanks were attack in that one area? That is one crowded area. Could it be that is the nation wide total?

[vbmoneyspender]

By the way all those tanks were attack in that one area? That is one crowded area. Could it be that is the nation wide total?

Your posts are getting increasingly incomprehensible. Either that or you are not a big fan of America's military forces.

[EYEWatchin]

What good will have we received so far?

[cinFLA]

Agree with you. This is way we fought in Vietnam.

NOT. The military have a mission. They have assured us that the mission will be completed. This is NOT Vietnam.

[Poohbah]

Destro's still PO'd that we didn't help Slobodan exterminate the genetic enemies of Greater Serbia.

[Kadric]

War is not a place for politicians. They may be handy before or after but never during. The battlefield is not a place for compromise but a place for rapid response to a very fluid situation with the goal of surviving the minute not worrying about what the other guy will think about you 10 years from now.

This country has been using a war doctrine of “War by PR” for to long. All of the high tech gadgets in the world does you no good if you will not use them. We have been trying to win the hearts and minds of the enemy for to long, it doesn’t work. The goal of limiting civilian casualties is a grand goal, but the main part is limiting not none at any cost.

I say grab the SOBs by the balls and squeeze until they start begging our forgiveness then squeeze some more before even acting like we hear them.

Those that want to be friends ok. To those that betray that trust see above with the added stipulation when we let go of yours they will be firming in place in your mouth.

[hchutch]

Gee, maybe it never occured to some folks that genocide is WRONG, even against Moslems.

[biblewonk]

If the other side doesn't give a s**t, then why should we? I'm being perfectly serious. I'm not willing to see any more of our boys sacrificed in exchange for supposedly fewer "civilian casualties". Frankly, any civilians hanging around are just stupid. You shoot, you die........and if that means taking out a building, c'est la guerre.

Our losses will be higher because we are being careful to keep their losses to a minimum.

[vbmoneyspender]

yeah, I've seen his posts. Life's a bitch when you go around killing defenseless women and children and the U.S. military gets involved.

[Destro]

big fan? is this a footbal game?

[The Toll]

I can think of no legitimate scenario in which the most advanced attack hellicopters in the world should be troubled by small arms or old soviet RPG-7's. That goes double for a night operation.
Something is missing from the story.

[vbmoneyspender]

big fan? is this a footbal game?

Speaking as an American, I am damn proud of our military. Aren't you?

[Destro]

You mean the Muslims? Yea I'm pissed Clinton helped them but what does that have to do with this post? All I said is I did not hear of thise tank kill report and if so I doubt all those tanks were killed in one small patch of earth since that would have made that village the greatest tank battle since Kursk. 70-8o tanks are a lot of tanks in a small town/loacation. so it is either 80 vehicles killed of all types or 80 tanks nation wide.

[vbmoneyspender]

BTW, here is a link to what Fox News is reporting happened with the Apache (i.e. it was not shot down).

[TADSLOS]

RPGs are not radar guided. They are optically sighted. The Iraqis may have had NVDs while firing these, but the firing blast from an RPG would have shut them down temporarily. I'm apt to believe that some of the aircraft hovered over the top of some Iraqis low enough to distinguish them against the skyline, making them an inviting target.

[Destro]

I respect the military and it's role as defender of the republic. It is the govt I am not a "fan" of.

[vbmoneyspender]

Fair enough.