Posted on 03/24/2003 10:47:00 AM PST by Destro
Hail of Gunfire and Grenades Forces Apaches to Pull Back
By JIM DWYER
IN CENTRAL IRAQ, March 24 - With a hail of small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades, Iraqi forces downed two Apache helicopters today and forced 30 other helicopters in their brigade back to their base.
One two-member crew was unaccounted for; the other was rescued. Iraqi state television broadcast images of one downed helicopter, which appeared largely intact, and jubilant men dancing around it.
All 32 helicopters sustained some damage, occasionally slight, Army officials said, in what was a significant setback for the allies.
Fighting continued today in Nasiriya, meanwhile, after the death of 10 marines there on Sunday in the deadliest battle of the war so far.
The attack on the helicopters today surprised American Army leaders and may cause them to rethink their military strategy, which relied on the Apaches to destroy Iraq's armored divisions that ring Baghdad.
The commander of the American-led invasion of Iraq confirmed the loss of one Apache helicopter.
``The fate of the crew is uncertain right now,'' Gen. Tommy R. Franks said at a news briefing at Central Command in Qatar. We characterize that crew, two men, as missing in action.''
General Franks denied that the helicopter had been shot down by farmers, as Iraq claimed, but did not say what had forced it out of the air.
A CNN correspondent accompanying the United States Army Fifth Corps 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment, said the unit had been on a night-time combat mission targeting units of the elite Republican Guard.
The correspondent cited one of the pilots as saying they had run into a ``hornet's nest, a barrage of antiaircraft fire,'' near the city of Kerbala, 70 miles southwest of Baghdad, the closest fighting to the Iraqi capital since the war began last Thursday.
The Iraqi Information Minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, said at a news conference: ``Farmers shot down two Apaches. We showed one today and might show the second and the pilots.''
``We are holding several other American and British prisoners and we may show some of them,'' the minister said.
The Apaches use a powerful radar, called the Longbow, that directs their Hellfire missiles.
But the Apaches are suddenly coming under attack from relatively low-technology weaponry.
Saddam Hussein ``is fighting an asymmetrical warfare,'' said Brig. Gen. Benjamin Freakly, assistant commander of the 101st Division. ``This is not tank on tank fighting.''
The attack took place near the village of Abu Mustafe, north of Al Hillah, and capped a punishing 24 hours for the allied offensive.
General Freakly said that in an attack like the one on the helicopters, ``you have 10 guys lying on top of a building firing R.P.G.'s and small arms. You can go in and bomb that building and reduce it to rubble,'' but at the potential cost of many civilian lives.
The Army now may consider new tactics, such as additional close aerial bombardment, to support the Apaches as they hunt for armored divisions.
The Apaches were from the 11th Aviation Regiment, based in Germany, and are attached to the V Corps.
Sandstorms are roiling the area, blowing at 25 knots, and are likely to rise to 40 knots on Tuesday and Wednesday. At 30 knots, a meteorologist said, visibility becomes practically nil.
General Franks also said today that the tenacity of some Iraqi units, including the fedayeen, was no surprise and that American-led forces had had some ``terrific firefights.''
The Republican Guard has been hit, he said, and ``they will continue to be hit, at points and places and times that make sense to us. The effect has been very positive for us.''
What we're NOT hearing is how many KIA we have incurred on them, and don't forget we have a few thousand POW's to boot. A back of the envelope estimate of Iraqi KIA's would probably be in the thousands at this point. We still have good reason to believe Saddam and his band are out of commission, either dead or wounded, and these 'pockets of resistance' that we keep hearing about mean we're more in control of the situation than they are. Contrast this with the early days of the Afghan campaign, when WE were the pockets of resistance to a largely Taliban held country.
Things aren't going that bad.
We definitely have made some mistakes, the biggest of which is allowing Iraqi TV to remain on the air. The truth is that the country is still more afraid of Saddam than they are of us. Not taking out the TV is going a long way to helping this to be the case. Once we have dealt with the head of the snake, Baghdad, this will no longer be the case and critical mass will be achieved, and the situation will change drastically.
Baghdad is the key, and we need to get in there this week and take control of the situation.
I don't think that is happening. At least, not in such simple terms. You have to look at the big picture. We didn't trade American blood to gain favor of the French in WWII. We did it because we saw that if the Nazi regime were to continue, it would mean a major threat to us in the long run. If Iraqi's believe we are there to liberate them and not destroy them and that our target is Saddam and his cruel regime, a progressive government for the future is more likely. Which... in the end, means more peace for us.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This thing will be over when the Arabic language is spoken only in hell. This particular campaign may be to oust Saddam Hussein. But let's not kid ourselves. This is a cultural war of annihilation. And it won't be over until one side or the other is completely obliterated.
It's them or us. I vote us.
What war are you watching? Maybe Bush isn't picking targets, but he's sure as hell picking what not to target. Furthermore, if this is the "Donald/Tommy Show", who, pray tell, do Donald and Tommy work for?
No dude, this is Bush trying to apply his "new tone" to warfare, and that doesn't work. If we must go to war, then we need to do it as quickly as possible, as violently as possible, and decisively as possible, so when our enemy is defeated, he stays that way, and no one else dares to lift a finger against us (think of Japan after WW2). To do anything else is to needlessly put our troops further in harm's way. If our guys are being shot at, regardless of by whom or where he's hiding, they ned to have the freedom to eliminate the threat without having to first stop and look for items on the forbidden targets list.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
"The same BS was being thrown around in Afghanistan. More bombing, bigger bombs, more troops, we need to unleash the hounds. Sure enough Afghanistan fell that same week."
Oh, Afghanistan fell, did it? Is that why the 82d is on a sweep mission right now as we speak, looking for Al-Qaeda and Taliban guerillas and their weapons? Is that why the guerillas, who you say "fell", rocketed one of the 82d's bases last week? No, sir, Afghanistan didn't "fall". The guerillas did as they have done in the past with the Brits and the Soviets...ran away to the mountains and caves to fight the same guerilla war they've always fought. Afghanistan is far from over.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
TUFF, just DO IT !!
DITTO, man DITTO!, and No half measures!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.