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To: nickcarraway; Salvation; Maeve; Siobhan
Ping! This is big. Can any of you ping your lists? Thanks!
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
These Bishops risk losing more members.
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
To be filed under: I didn't leave the church, the church left me.
4 posted on
03/18/2003 5:01:02 PM PST by
DensaMensa
(He who controls the definitions controls history.)
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
HE IS AN IDIOT!
5 posted on
03/18/2003 5:01:04 PM PST by
observer5
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Clean up your own house of homosexual predators
before you say anything about Americans!
8 posted on
03/18/2003 5:02:57 PM PST by
HuntsvilleTxVeteran
(chIRAQ & sadDAM are bedfellows & clinton is a raping traitor!)
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Well, this Catholic has a message for this bishop who is putting even more of a load on the young men and women on their way to liberate Iraq.
Bishop Botean, you are a disgrace.
9 posted on
03/18/2003 5:03:08 PM PST by
jwalsh07
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Blind fool. No moral justification for war? All national security interests aside, Saddam's tyrrany is moral justification enough.
11 posted on
03/18/2003 5:04:40 PM PST by
pgkdan
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The bishop announced that he "must declare to you, my people, for the sake of your salvation as well as my own, that any direct participation and support of this war against the people of Iraq is objectively grave evil, a matter of mortal sin."
Is he saying that if you are in the military you are going to hell?
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
He's right about the principles involved, and he has the authority, as a bishop to teach those principles. A Catholic (or anyone else) is forbidden ever do anything immoral, and being commanded to do something immoral does not authorize anyone to obey that command. I.e., there is no such thing, in Catholic moral theology, as the excuse, "I was just obeying orders." If the act is immoral, BOTH the one who commanded it and the one obeying are guilty.
So it is not an adequate answer to the bishop to tell him that the President says we are going to war, so shut up. That is a mindless response to the bishop.
The question is: Is the bishop correct in his judgment that this war violates justice? He has no special charism or authority to make that judgment. He can be as easily wrong as right.
I think he is wrong, because we have been at war for years--i.e., the U.S. is not about to initiate unjust aggression--and Saddam is a killer who is manifestly preparing to kill again.
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
> Byzantine-rite Romanian Catholics<
READ people!!!!
Romanian NOT Roman!!!!!
Nothing to do with the rest of us!
16 posted on
03/18/2003 5:05:52 PM PST by
G Larry
($10K gifts to John Thune before he announces!)
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
This article says "Byzantine-right Romanian Catholics"...sounds separate from the Roman Catholic Church? I've never heard of them before.
(And I thought we Presbyterians were confusing...)
}:-)4
18 posted on
03/18/2003 5:06:25 PM PST by
Moose4
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Gee, during the Greek War of Independence against the Ottoman empire the Greek Orthodox priest were not unknown to take up arms and actually kill an enemy or two. Then again many of them had wives and children....
Seriously is this a joke? Is this an urban legend?
Is this a leftist/homosexual priest?
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
An American Catholic bishop has forbidden his flock from participating or cooperating in military action against Iraq, under pain of mortal sin. The continuing death of Catholicism revealed. I'm glad that Catholics are Christians, but their leaders are COMPLETE MORONS.
20 posted on
03/18/2003 5:06:46 PM PST by
Centurion2000
(Take charge of your destiny, or someone else will)
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
An American Catholic bishop has forbidden his flock from participating or cooperating in military action against Iraq, under pain of mortal sin.He can't do this. No prelate can suddenly declare something to be a "mortal sin." He especially cannot declare a morally neutral action such as fighting for one's country to be sinful at all. German soldiers were not guilty of sin for fighting for Hitler.
This bishop (to borrow a Richard Pryor phrase) "is crazy"!
21 posted on
03/18/2003 5:06:52 PM PST by
sinkspur
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The good bishop is not seeing the forest for the trees. The disarming of Iraq is but a battle in a war which we did not start. The just war theory does not preclude aggressive tactics in a defensive war.
23 posted on
03/18/2003 5:07:12 PM PST by
T Ruth
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
My priest is in the National Guard. He hasn't been called up but we're willing to do without him if he's needed in the war effort. I have to admit that our bishop doesn't like him being in the guard just because he needs every priest he has but he hasn't prevented him.
24 posted on
03/18/2003 5:07:12 PM PST by
tiki
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
This guy is not Roman Catholic.
30 posted on
03/18/2003 5:10:08 PM PST by
Petronski
(I'm not always cranky.)
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
This guy evidently is a Bishop in an Eastern Church that is affiliated with the Catholic Church. I don't know what the rules are within his particular group, but if he were a Catholic bishop, this statement would be essentially meaningless. A bishop has a perfect right to warn the faithful that he thinks a certain course of action would be sinful, but it is a prudential judgment and he may be wrong. In this case he almost certainly is wrong.
31 posted on
03/18/2003 5:10:46 PM PST by
Cicero
(Marcus Tullius)
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Well, while this is not my diocese, and while I am not Eastern Rite, this is one mortal sin, I would bear. God Bless
Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit
To: Canticle_of_Deborah
As a Catholic I can attest that this is not in his power. When he pretends to speak with the authority of God he is indeed "Using God's name in vain".
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