Once again, I'm glad I'm 58 instead of 28.
Posted on 03/14/2003 3:26:39 PM PST by B4Ranch
We are all familiar, and more than a bit tired and annoyed, at how liberals habitually take conservative proposals, twist them around, take them out of context, and then use it to smear their opponents (e.g. anyone who opposes affirmative action is a racist, anyone who opposes abortion hates women, anyone who opposes the UN, or favors national defense, is a warmonger, ad nauseum). A birdie, and years of experience reading dozens of scare articles just like this one, tells me that the exact same thing is happening here.
Don't try to scare me or call me names, just do a Sgt. Friday "give me the facts, ma'am." I'll make up my own mind on what these facts actually mean, thank you.
Once again, I'm glad I'm 58 instead of 28.
P.S. The burden of providing the relevant facts should always be on those who want to increase the power of government - not on those of us who want it to be kept in its place.
As far as I know there is nothing under consideration in Congress called the Patriot Act II. Either it was leaked out of the DOJ as a trial balloon (in which case it is getting blasted as an idea that won't fly) or it was leaked to cause all of this hand wringing.
Those ideas, IF ever proposed would not make it out of the House, or even out of the House Judiciary committee.
PATRIOT II
Introduction | Analyses | News Top News
- "PATRIOT II" Draft Obtained. The Center for Public Integrity has obtained draft legislation titled the "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003." The legislation would expand surveillance powers and access to private data while limiting access to information held by the government. For more information, see the EPIC USA PATRIOT Act Page. (Feb. 7, 2003)
In February 2003, the Center for Public Integrity obtained an apparent draft of "PATRIOT II" legislation. The draft, dated January 9, 2003, contained an analysis and the proposed text of the "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003."
The draft touches on a number of areas of law, including wiretapping, law enforcement access to business records, freedom of information, search and seizure, encryption policy, and immigration law.
When the language was leaked, the DOJ immediately issued a press release minimizing the importance of the draft. However, the draft indicates that DOJ intends to continue to increase executive police power while either limiting or eliminating congressional or judicial oversight.
- PATRIOT II Draft (12 MB PDF), Privacy.org.
- PATRIOT II Draft (OCR HTML Version), Dailyrotten.com.
- Section-by-Section Analysis of Justice Department draft “Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003,” also known as "PATRIOT Act II," ACLU, February 14, 2003.
- Talking Points I: Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 ("Patriot II"), Friends Committee on National Legislation, February 13, 2003.
- Patriot Act II Also Limits the Public’s Right-to-Know, OMBWatch, February 10, 2003.
- ACLU Says New Ashcroft Bill Erodes Checks and Balances on Presidential Power; PATRIOT II Legislation Would Needlessly Infringe on Basic Constitutional Liberties, ACLU, February 12, 2003.
- Patriot Act: The Sequel, Washington Post, February 12, 2003.
- FBI chief seeks new powers; rebuffs critics, Government Executive, February 11, 2003.
- Comments Of Senator Patrick Leahy, Ranking Democratic Member, Senate Judiciary Committee,
On The Justice Department’s Secrecy In Drafting A Sequel To The USA PATRIOT Act, Senator Leahy, February 10, 2003.- Perspectives: Ashcroft's worrisome spy plans, CNET, February 10, 2003.
- DOJ Statement on Release of PATRIOT II Draft, DOJ, February 7, 2003.
- Justice Dept. Drafts Sweeping Expansion of Anti-Terrorism Act, Center for Public Integrity, February 7, 2003.
EPIC Privacy Page | EPIC Home Page Last Updated: February 19, 2003
Page URL: http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/patriot2.html
I don't care about burdens of proof, I just want to know what the actual facts are, i.e. whether the legislation is even close to being as horrible as the author suggests it is. I know the difference between propaganda, on the one hand, and reasoned argument on the other hand.
I think you're right, come to think of it. And I'm not necessarily defending something that I just admitted I don't know squat about. :) My objection was to the tone and style of the article, nothing more. It is the style of "argument" that the lefties almost always use, a style which (1) doesn't work as a method of persuasion (except for the weak-minded people who follow them) and (2) invariably rubs me the wrong way.
Thanks for posting it.
I find it very ironic that someone can post this unconstitutional "Domestic Security Enhancement ACt" stuff right here on the net, to the self-proclaimed home of patriotic "defenders of the constitution," and at most these "patriots" react with indignation and disbelief. They stick their fingers in their ears and hum aloud!
I hope the US govt. does pass the DSEA and that some future administration uses to round up all of the gun nuts, pro-lifers, etc, and imprison them without charges or counsel!
Then when Rush Limbaugh tries to spin this as a "good thing," I can laugh and watch them try to sputter and explain why dismantling the constitution really did seem like such a great idea back in 2003, because, of course, the great deity Bush could do no wrong...
The so-called Patriot act was rammed (un-read) through congress with hysterical rhetoric. Maybe a litlle hysteria in the name of Freedom is justified.
And it isn't just the libbos who are worried...
That said, Patriot I is a big fat POS, and our current politicians from all sides of the aisle voted it in without even reading the damn thing.
Now we have the obsessed freak Ashfcroft and fat-faced pro-death Ridge loving every minute of it. Meanwhile we let these scummy Islamists walk in and out of our country at will, and leave our borders wide open.
Yet we must look up the anus of every American citizen. After all, there may be a terrorist in there somewhere.
You wanna win the war on terror? Seal the borders and get rid of every male Arab non-citizen between the ages of 17 and 45. WOT over.
That would be too easy though, no power grabs and ego trips in that.
They all suck and can't keep anyone safe, get that though your head. They're having a blast incrementally ruining a free coutry.
The hysteria is what turns me off to the issue. That's what the left always does: substitute raw emotion (especially fear) for facts and good arguments based on facts. It simply doesn't work, except perhaps with children and people who think and act like children (such as the above-mentioned political left).
This proposal is a complete non-starter. It is impossible to "seal" a border consisting of thousands and thousands of miles of combined miles of land and coastline. This country is simply way too big. You might as well try stopping Niagra Falls with a sieve.
I would much rather take all the troops and personnel that such a job would require (which would be nowhere close to enough) and send them abroad to hunt down and exterminate the terrorists themselves. In this case, the best defense is a strong offense.
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