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To: Cacophonous
>>"...we might as well write Article I, Section 8 out of the Constitution. It will effectively have no meaning."<<

Au contraire! It has a precise meaning.

Here is what declaring war means:

"A state of war is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States."

All the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States

That's what it means when the People of the United States (acting through their representatives in Congress assembled) declare war on their enemies. That's the power that We assign to Congress in Article I, section 8.

And if you think that power is a nullity (as many here do), look what happens when our armed forces are in combat without "all the resources of the country".

The Commander-in-Chief is not CINC of the People, he is CINC of the armed forces. He already has the authority to order them into combat (this was already adjudicated in in both Korea and Vietnam, the lawsuit is an absurdity).

What he lacks the authority to do is to pledge the full resources of the nation to victory. And when that commitment is lacking, the results are all bad-the minority in Congress can complain constantly about every reverse and every bad thing that happens (as they do when you are not taking over Granada or Panama), the People are not fully engaged in the war effort, and the sustaining power of the People behind our troops tends to flag and then to fail.

The "War Powers Act" is unconstitutional, a pathetic attempt by a spineless Congress to have it both ways.

Only the People of the United States can declare War, and our only mechanism to do so is through our Representatives and Senators.

We should demand that they do so-not to enable the President to act, but to add the power of "all the resources of the nation" to the struggle that lies ahead.

16 posted on 03/13/2003 4:18:25 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Jim Noble
Thank you. Nice post...brings up some issues I hadn't considered.
25 posted on 03/13/2003 4:24:02 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: Jim Noble
Hate to say this, but you are simply playing semantic games here.

The constitiution does not spell out "how" congress must declare war. There is no "magic phraseology" involved.

The President of the United States asked Congress for approval in using the Armed Forces of the United States against Iraq. Congress replied:

"The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to-- (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq;..." [Section 3 of "Authorization for Use of
Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002"]

10/10/2002: Passed House by the Yeas and Nays: 296 - 133 (Roll no. 455).
10/11/2002: Passed Senate without amendment and with a preamble by Yea-Nay Vote. 77 - 23. Record Vote Number: 237.
10/16/2002: Signed by President.
10/16/2002: Became Public Law No: 107-243.

A Declaration is defined as being "an explicit, formal announcement, either oral or written." (Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)

War is defined as "a state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."
(same source)

Therefore, when congress publically states that the president is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he sees fit" in order to defend the country from attacks by a foreign power (in this case Iraq), they HAVE declared that a situation war exists between the parties (US vs. Iraq). The act of authorization is the same as if the US had actually physically attacked the other party. The state of war exists, even it it is currently a "cold" war.

Congress does not have the power to "pledge the resources of the United States. This woudl assume that the Congress in some way has "power" over the resouces which it does not. Congress simply acts as our representative in a deliberative body. In decisions of war, the Congress (supposedly in tune with thier constituents) deliberates the matter and either authorizes the President to conduct war or not.


57 posted on 03/13/2003 5:17:02 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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To: Jim Noble; Cacophonous; Poohbah; Congressman Billybob
I believe Congressman Billybob once covered this issue quite well in one of his columns.

The short version: There is NO set languange laid out in the Constitution for a declaration of war - this is a clear contrast to the oath of office for the Presidency.
77 posted on 03/13/2003 5:51:03 AM PST by hchutch ("Last suckers crossed, Syndicate shot'em up" - Ice-T, "I'm Your Pusher")
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