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The Willing and the Unwilling: France has few friends because it has so little to offer
opinionjournal.com ^ | March 11, 2003 | Paul Johnson

Posted on 03/11/2003 6:11:39 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:05:24 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, history did not end: It became more complicated. America's showdown with the Saddam regime in Iraq has brought some of these complexities into the open.

It is the theme of Robert Kagan's "Of Paradise and Power" that "the West" is no longer a meaningful unity. A chasm, he argues, has opened between America and Europe. On the one hand, America believes in a Hobbesian world where life is "nasty, brutish and short" unless a righteous Leviathan, the U.S., "keeps them all in Awe." To do this, overwhelming force must not only be created but, if necessary, used. On the other hand, the Europeans, lacking force, believe in a Kantean vision of "Perpetual Peace" in which, on the model of the European Union, disputes are resolved by discussion and compromise.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: france; french; iraq; un; war; weasels
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1 posted on 03/11/2003 6:11:39 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Stand Watch Listen
"If Bush Sr. had not weakly allowed Saddam to stay in power, all Bush Jr.'s present troubles would have been avoided; indeed, it is possible that 9/11 would not have taken place."

So, the author suggests that one of the unintended consequences of the First Gulf War might be (was) 9/11. He is making Patrick Buchanan's argument only from the Wilsonian, liberal position.

As I see it, our problems with the Middle East can be seen two ways, one distinctly conservative, the other liberal.

1) Too much intervention
2) Not enough intervention

Both are perfectly defensible positions only one is Conservative and the other liberal.

This is entirely what I have been saying and further proof that the neo-cons, and their hawk cheerleaders are not Conservatives at all, but Wilsonian liberals who for some reason long to be called 'Conservatives' but certainly there is nothing particularly authentic about this conservatism which is why the hawks want to make every dissenter out to be an anti-American leftist.
2 posted on 03/11/2003 6:21:22 AM PST by JohnGalt
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To: JohnGalt
The Buchananites (of which you seem to be) are now standing with the Communists and Islamofascists.
3 posted on 03/11/2003 6:41:44 AM PST by LarryM
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Johnson's American history is the one I refer to most. I am driving south next week,Maine to Virginia and plan to take it along. His treatment of the Brits and us as family is such a good analogy.
4 posted on 03/11/2003 6:41:54 AM PST by larryjohnson
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: LarryM
Wow, what a highbrow comeback.

If Osama's goal of 9/11 was to start an East-West battle to the death, aren't you on the side of the Islamo-fasscists?
6 posted on 03/11/2003 6:46:32 AM PST by JohnGalt
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To: Karl B
The difference, perhaps, is that President Bush is a leader. He has brought the American public to the point where they not only are supportive of a war with Iraq, but are anxious to get on with it.

President Chirac has made no effort to lead the French public. He is following it. That is why it is so easy to call him a weasel.

7 posted on 03/11/2003 6:53:22 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Karl B
The "USA will do it alone in the Middle East" stance will not work in the post war. anyone serious should understand the reasons why are quite obvious.

If the US is successful in their goal of eliminating Iraq's current regime and mass weapon capability, there will be no lack of nations trying to jump on the post-war bandwagon. Success has a thousand parents, failure is an orphan.

Las the pros were not...

I don't understand the word "Las". Do you mean "Alas", meaning regretfully? Or is this a French term that doesn't translate?

8 posted on 03/11/2003 7:13:30 AM PST by LexBaird
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To: Stand Watch Listen
On the other hand, the Europeans, lacking force, believe in a Kantean vision of "Perpetual Peace" in which, on the model of the European Union, disputes are resolved by discussion and compromise.

What they fail to acknowledege is that the European Union (Western Europe) is only peaceful because the cycle of Western European warfare that had existed for over 2000 years was brought to an abrupt end by the Pax Americana imposed upon them by the armed might of the United States.

Imagine what Western Europe and the rest of the World would be like today if the United States had followed a "Fortress America" foreign policy during the 20th Century and had remained as totally isolated as 19th Century Japan.

It would not be a pretty sight.

9 posted on 03/11/2003 7:21:34 AM PST by Polybius
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To: Stand Watch Listen
"I would rather have a German division in front of me,
than a French one behind me."
-- George S. Patton

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals.
Apart from these drawbacks, it is a fine country.
France has usually been governed by prostitutes."
-- Mark Twain

"I just love the French. They taste just like chicken."
-- Hannibal Lecter

10 posted on 03/11/2003 7:23:12 AM PST by polemikos
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To: Karl B
It's certain that the US government cannot do Iraq alone.

But if the Iraqi people (not forgeting its tribal divisions) can be rallied around a regime which is at least moderately pro-American, they will be all the allies we actually need. If not, we will need more allies than we would ever be likely to have.

11 posted on 03/11/2003 7:24:17 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: larryjohnson
This is a good artlicle.

So Mr. Johnson has an American History out that you recommend?
13 posted on 03/11/2003 7:26:21 AM PST by Sam Cree (Banana Republican)
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To: Sam Cree
"A History of The American People",Harper Collins,1998, Paul Johnson,1928-
I spotted it on Amazon.com but ordered it from a local(60 mi away) bookstore.
14 posted on 03/11/2003 7:36:01 AM PST by larryjohnson
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To: Sam Cree
Wierd, I just noted that he first mentions Iraq on p 911. This is the connection that has been avoiding all of us.
15 posted on 03/11/2003 7:39:10 AM PST by larryjohnson
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To: Stand Watch Listen

France can play a major role in this conflict ... they can lend the Iraqi Army all of their white flags!!!


16 posted on 03/11/2003 7:46:54 AM PST by CurlyBill
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To: Dog Gone
Freep THE WORM here...
17 posted on 03/11/2003 7:46:59 AM PST by jimbo123
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To: Karl B
and Europe will probably become the most powerful economy in this century. ...

Only if you lose your socoalist tendencies, which I don't see happening anytime soon, because the populace at large has grown too comfortable sucking at the government teat, and I doubt you have, let alone would vote for, a leader with the stones to correct that condition.

18 posted on 03/11/2003 7:54:09 AM PST by AFreeBird
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: AFreeBird
socoalist = socialist
20 posted on 03/11/2003 7:55:11 AM PST by AFreeBird
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