A lot of damned Gaul (FRENCH ALERT)

Chicago Tribune ^ | March 9, 2003 | Charles Leroux - Tribune senior correspondent

[Chi-townChief]

It's no longer acceptable to tell a Polish joke, imply that all Italians are mobbed up or that Jews, in fact, run everything. When you see people wearing XXXL spandex, forget poking fun at their expanse. And put down that dwarf this instant!

Fortunately for those among us who need some group to abuse, the season remains open on those cheese-eating, cowardly, rude, haughty, ungrateful surrender monkeys (and their hairy women to boot)--the French.

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The suspicion arises that much of what is being said now comes out of whatever the word would be for racism when applied instead to nations. Might it be that, with all other targets for hate now on the do-not-offend list, the French are left to take the hit for the assumed-exorcised but perhaps just repressed darkest corner of the American psyche? Might that be worth considering?

CLeroux@tribune.com

[Chi-townChief]

'Bonn has taken much the same tack as Paris on the question, and yet nobody is suggesting renaming German potato salad "Freedom potato salad."'

Interesting point, Mr. Leroux! Could it be because no American columnists of German extraction have written stuff like:

"If you glance at the byline on this piece, you'll catch a strong whiff of Gaulish. I can trace that side of my family back to Canada, but before that I don't know--maybe Belgium, probably France. I've never felt especially French even in this city founded by 18th Century surrender monkeys. My ability to speak French has stopped at the point-at-things-or-say-nouns level. I very much like the occasional baguette but won't be wearing a beret--not as a hat, not as a protest. My concern, in fact, is less for them than it is for us."

[Chi-townChief]

PING

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...and their hairy women to boot...

Catherine Deneuve.

[MEG33]

I don't think he likes me.Wonder what deep repressed hatred he's been yearning to express?

[ffusco]

LOL

[logic101.net]

The French are the but of jokes for reasons they have created. Heck, anyone who can look at a slimy snail or slug and drool SHOULD be suspect!


MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/

[Capriole]

Well, I for one have been having a great deal of fun at the expense of the French lately. My suspicion is that the Germans haven't come in for such nastiness because they're a pretty friendly lot when you go there as a tourist, and a great many Americans who have been stationed in Germany have made friends among the Germans. The same seldom happens with Americans who visit in France.

My own experiences with the French have been fairly negative. I recall travelling in Europe a number of years ago, back when I could speak flawless, unaccented Parisian diplomatic French. I'd have long involved relaxed conversations with French people right up to the moment when they asked me what part of France I was from, and I'd admit cheerfully that I was an American. Suddenly I was no longer charming, witty, attractive, sophisticated, and easy to converse with; they could no longer understand this American barbarian.

That said, I got this comment from a very conservative, pro-war, pro-Bush friend who just came back from France. He writes,

"...while we make fun of the "cowardice" of the French (I am still not sure why; it's Chirac who is the moral coward, not the French military), the fact remains that in World War II, they suffered over half a million battle deaths, far more than us. And, from my perspective, they could easily complain in turn that when their premier begged Roosevelt to send "clouds of warplanes" to save France from Germany in 1940, he was completely ignored. In 1940 and 1914, we pretty much took the same attitude toward Europe that they are taking toward us now, i.e., 'It's not my problem.' I will remind you that we did not declare war on Germany; Adolf Hitler, for some stupid reason, declared war on us. Else who knows what would have happened? This is not to say I in any way approve of what France is doing now, but I will admit I am getting a bit tired of these jokes about the French being cowards. There were 136,000 American battle deaths in World War One. France had almost 1.4 million die."

I freely confess to some ignorance here. What is the reaction of the more historically well-informed among us to this? Is my friend correct that the accusations of cowardice are unjust, if humorous?

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Germans found it was much easier to shoot
frenchmen in the back.
then to shoot Americans in the front and
who also shot back!

[DB]

That's because it didn't matter what the Germans did, they have veto at the UN. The French do (did?) and that does have consequences.

[DB]

Ack!

That's because it didn't matter what the Germans did, they have no veto at the UN. The French do (did?) and that does have consequences.

[chicagolady]

You are right. It is no longer acceptable to call Democrats.... spineless, mindless, gutless, jellyfish.
Besides, what did jellyfish ever do to you?

[tbpiper]

Ah! You forget that we get to roast the turkey first!

[NovemberCharlie]

Another point:

"How many men does it take to defend Paris?"

None, it's never been tried.

The correct answer is 250,000. That's how many men the French military lost in the Battle of the Marne in WWI, when they stopped the German offensive outside Paris.

[Chi-townChief]

I would consider the French more a--holes than cowards.

[Jim Dandy]

Let's recall that the French rounded up their Jews to make it easy for the Germans to organize the transportation to the extermination camps. That the French in effect created the environment for WWII with thier demands at Versailles That the French could have stopped Hitler when he re-occupied the Rheinland. They outnumbered the Germans something like 40 to one. The French had more casualties than the U.S.? Seems to me that just proves the suck a$$ quality of their military. When you consider the French only fought for ten months and lost half a million, versus the U.S. fighting on two major fronts (plus countless minor ones)for 4 years, losing 408 thousand. Going to war without the French is like going hunting without your accordion.The Germans have always been strong militarily and friendly to the U.S. Currently the German government is made up of leftists and left of left terrorists (re Greens) Everything will be OK in Germany in a year or so.

[DannyTN]

"The suspicion arises that much of what is being said now comes out of whatever the word would be for racism when applied instead to nations."

There are much simpler reasons than racism.

What little progress the UN is making through inspections is because there are 300,000 US troops at Iraq's border. That is an enormous cost on the US.

Neither France nor anyone else has the right to expect the US to foot that bill any longer than necessary.

However, the US does have the right and obligation to defend itself and there is tremendous evidence that Saddam has links and supports terrorism and may have even been involved in 9/11.

For the French to oppose the US war is a display of anti-Americanism that is unprecedented except in fundamental Islamic regimes. (On second thought, maybe it is racism. French racism against the US.)

What's more is that Saddam has openly bragged about funding suicide bombers against Israel. I'm outraged that there is not more outrage and world comdemnation of that practice. If they were African or Muslim, the world would be outraged, but because they are Jews, the world and especially the French are silent. I know Saddam would like nothing better than to make this about Israel. So what. The Jews are human and the world has the obligation to condemn and stop that practice.

So to the French I say, get your cheese eating surrender monkey rear ends out of our way. And that's not racism that's morale outrage.

[branicap]

I freely confess to some ignorance here. What is the reaction of the more historically well-informed among us to this? Is my friend correct that the accusations of cowardice are unjust, if humorous?

Any sane military historian or ,at least,interested in this subject person will lough on ,alleged,French cowardice!

This silly myth,which was propagated perpetualy,first by Brits and now by Americans ,simply,is not true.Till WWII French army had fought many wars and have been victorious in many of them.And French had never,ever been acused of "cowardice".

But,everything had changed in 1940-41!French had lost against Germans!The reasons for defeat had nothing to do with "cowardice" but to the two fundamentaly different views on the war that were dominant after WWI...French General Goufre honestly said:"Our mistake was that we were victorious in WWI!"So,French being victorious decided to stick to tyhe tactics from WWI,just like British and Americans.British had invented tanks ,Germans and Russians perfected them!Germans were on the recieving end of the tanks and knew what effect they had on their troops(Tank terror)!British and French didn`t.Germany was fortunate to have at that time Heinz Guderian who devised tactics for the future(joint attack by aviation,artillery and mechanized troops=Blitz Crieg).And while French had 100 ooo cavalry soldiers Germans had 5000 fast tanks;while Germany had 3000 dive bombers(infamous Ju-87 Stuka) French and British had NONE;while Germans used PAK 50 (anti tank gun 50mm) as their lowest caliber weapon,French,British;USA had 37mm pea shooters which couldn`t schrach German armour!And,while French based their strategy on WWI tactics of static,fortified defence(Maginot line,unfinished!!!) Germans introduced war by shock and manouver!Finally,French Generalstaff was a retirement home for senile Marshals from WWI..suffice to say that French commander Marshal Veigand (late 70s) had deliberately isolated himself in a casle outside Paris,without radio or telephone and comunicated with his troops using couriers????

British Expeditionary Corps didn`t fare any better(but that will be conviniently ommited from Anglo-Saxon textbooks)!Let us just say that both French and British were smashed by German juggernaut!BOTH OF THEM!They had inferior equipement,wrong tactics and lost big time!Just like everybody else in Europe!Everybody else,got thet,folks??France,Poland,Nederland,Belgium,Greece,Yugoslavia were overrun within weeks of German attack.Let me remind you,dear American friends that the largest army in the world(Soviet Red Army) was ,almost,anihilated ,too,in the first six months of fighting with Germans!Britain was saved by the Chanel,or she would share the same faith like France!

The first contact between Germans and Americans in Tunisia was a total disaster for Americans.The whole war in Sicily and Italy was tough and Germans skillfully had managed to withdraw 90% of their troops intact!Thanks to the stupidity and vanity of one American general who wanted to"be the Liberator of Rome"!So,instead if cutting of the German troops in Southern Italy after landing in Anzio,he went to "liberate Rome" which Germans had deserted a week ago!!

So,to summerize:German Army had managed to occupie and control the 90% of Europe within in 1940...everybody had surrendered!But,only the French are "cowards'???Not,Poles,Belgians,Dutch,Norvegians,Greeks,Yugoslavs...only French?!

Since WWII French fought in Algeria and Vietnam and there was no reports of cowardice anywhere.They left their former colonies by political(vise) decision.Then USA ventured into Vietnam instead of "cowardly French"...should I remind you of the result?I guess not.

Today,off all troops stationed in Balkans,French have by far the best reputation as soldiers as far as locals are concerned.Enough said!

But,I guess,it`s easier this way:perpetuate the story(false)designed by British as a direct result of 300+ years of Anglo-French animosity!

It is sad to see how America doesn`t understand that it is a prerogative of a good friend to tell the truth and warn you when you`re wrong!For the sake of a friendship!

Ass kissers are dime a dozen,remember!

PS.The poster is not French,OK?Just a friend.

[amongolian]

Actually it was the Americans who stopped the Germans just outside Paris in the Battle of the Marne. In their first major engagement American troops stopped the German advance in fierce hand to hand fighting at a place called Chateau Thierry on the main road to paris 37 miles outside of town. That was as close as the Germans ever got and after six more months of ass whooping from the like of Fighting Sargeant York they had enough and threw in the towel.

[amongolian]

The French have their poor reputation for courage primarily because the Vichy government collaborated. Remember before the US troops got their first whoopin' from the Germans in North Africa they had to fight their way ashore in Algeria and Morrocco against French military resistence. Does the name Admiral Darlan mean anything to you?

I might also add that the French army could have fallen back into Paris and forced the Germans to take it a block at a time. That tactic can prove very effective. It certainly did in Stalingrad and in the Warsaw Ghetto. However the French weren't really prepared to pay that kind of price for freedom or honour and opted to collaborate instead and round up their own Jews. Vichy's anti_jewish laws were even more severe than Germany's and it was French military and gendarmes and bureaucrats who enforced those laws. Many those officers the heroes you mentioned from the battle of the Marne. Poland which actually withstood attack longer than France despite being attacked on two fronts had its surviving officer corps massacred at Katin Forest by the Soviets.

In short France's conduct during WWII was not its most shining moment and nothing since that war, especially all the double dealing and massacres and human rights abuses during the Algerian war has done anthing to improve that reputation. And if you are going to mention the resistence during WWII, well they were all communists who were being hunted down anyway. As for the Free French under De Gaul they were nothing but a bunch of American armed auxilliaries and annoying ones at that. They couldn't even take Paris after the Germans evacuated and we had to send American troops to help all so a Frenchman could be the first one in. In the process a lot of Germans were able to slip the noose and weeks if not months were added to the war.