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To: MadIvan
It seems to me that some are missing the point on this thread. I agree that the definition of the beginning of "conciousness" or "intelligence" (which I think is what most mean by "being aware") is fuzzy and hard to determine at best. However, the key question, which no one is addressing is, "Do fetuses experience suffering in abortion?" If the answer is no, then there is one less reason to oppose abortion. If yes, then by all means it must be stopped.

I have noticed that several people are asserting that human consciousness does not begin until much later in the development cycle, and maybe not until several months after birth. This fact, they assert, means that the fetus can not "experience" suffering. And yet, these same people also refute arguments made by others that state that fetuses are perfectly capable of learning certain things (a mother's voice) as proof of intelligent consciousness (sentience). Once again, they're missing the point.

If babies don't truly develop sentience until much later in life (which they might not) this does not prevent them from experiencing pain. Why is it that the assumption is made that fetuses must first attain sentience before they can truly feel pain and be made to suffer? This just simply doesn't make sense, especially in connection with the argument that learning the voice of a parent is simply a lower-level brain function. Isn't pain, receiving and interpreting outside stiumli as physically harmful, an even more basic, low-level, fundamental function of the brain?

That said, most people seem to be making the point that no consciousness equals no pain/suffering. Prove to me that a non-conscious animal (and by that I mean both unintelligent and intelligent creatures) doesn't feel pain at any point of life, and you've proved that abortions are ethical, moral, and reasonable. Don't prove that (in other words, deny the fact that, consciousness or not, fetuses feel pain) and you've come to the most inescapable reason for banning abortion: you are inflicting pain upon the innocent, underserving, unprotected life of a mortal creature.
72 posted on 03/09/2003 7:12:27 PM PST by Unleashed (Cry, "havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war!)
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To: Unleashed
However, the key question, which no one is addressing is, "Do fetuses experience suffering in abortion?"

"Suffering" may be about as fuzzy as "consciousness". During fetal development, physical trauma causes a cascade of stress responses that have an effect on the development of the fetus. So, yes, there is "suffering". If the intent is to kill the fetus, however, this suffering is not a consideration.

85 posted on 03/09/2003 7:49:32 PM PST by Nebullis
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