Posted on 03/09/2003 4:26:55 PM PST by MadIvan
Foetuses may develop consciousness long before the legal age limit for abortions, one of Britain's leading brain scientists has said.
Baroness Greenfield, a professor of neurology at Oxford University and the director of the Royal Institution, said there was evidence to suggest the conscious mind could develop before 24 weeks, the upper age where terminations are permitted.
Although she fell short of calling for changes in the abortion laws, she urged doctors and society to be cautious when assuming unborn babies lacked consciousness. "Is the foetus conscious? The answer is yes, but up to a point," she said.
"Given that we can't prove consciousness or not, we should be very cautious about being too gung ho and assuming something is not conscious. We should err on the side of caution."
Last year, a Daily Telegraph straw poll found many neurologists were concerned that foetuses could feel pain in the womb before 24 weeks after conception.
Many believed foetuses should be given anaesthetics during a late abortion, after 20 weeks. Some also believe pain relief should be given for keyhole surgery in the womb.
Abortions are allowed up to 24 weeks in Britain, but are rarely given so late. Around 90 per cent of the 175,000 planned terminations that take place each year in England and Wales are in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Around 1.5 per cent - or 2,600 - take place after the 20th week.
Terminations after 24 weeks are only allowed in exceptional circumstances if, for instance, the mother's life is threatened.
Lady Greenfield is sceptical of philosophers and doctors who argue that consciousness is "switched on" at some point during the brain's development.
She believes instead that there is a sliding scale of consciousness and that it develops gradually as neurons, or brain cells, make more and more connections with each other.
She told the British Fertility Society in London last week that she had serious concerns about foetal consciousness.
"The Home Office has legislation that applies to a mammal and they have now extended it to the octopus, a mollusc, because it can learn," she said. "If a mollusc can be attributed with being sentient, and now has Home Office protection, then my own view is that we should be very cautious after making assumptions."
In 2001 a Medical Research Council expert group said unborn babies might feel pain as early as 20 weeks and almost certainly by 24. They called for more sensitive treatment of very premature babies, who often had to undergo painful procedures like heel pricks and injections.
This is exactly why the abortion industry does not want to show women the ultrasound of their unborn baby. If women REALLY knew what they were doing, they wouldn't do it.
We have informed consent for virtually everything, most particularly medical procedures, but the abortionists intentionally keep women ignorant in abortions.
So much for freedom of choice!
"... I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." Deut. 30
One of the way's that pro-abortion advocates confuse the issue is to keep switching topics when things get uncomfortable.
For example, at the basic level, abortion is really about two fundamental issues. Is the unborn child a "person" (i.e., a legal entity that deserves to have its life legally protected) and, if so, does that give the unborn child a right to use the woman's body, even against her will, until it is born? Answer either of those questions the wrong way and abortion is justified. So the pro-life side needs to firmly establish two points to win the debate. And it can -- if it stays on topic.
But what the pro-abortion side does is to confuse these two issues and never admit that they are wrong on either one. What they'll do is change the subject, back and forth, without admitting that they are wrong on either one. This keeps the argument going in circles with the appearance that it is the pro-life side that's fighting the uphill battle. Get close to proving the unborn are persons? No problem. They'll switch to "Her body, her choice." Get close to proving that's not so, and they'll switch back to "It's not a person, it's a blob of cells." What you need to do is catch them at that switch and refuse to change the subject unless they clearly conceded the previous point.
What adding consciousness and pain does, in my opinion, is it hands the pro-abortion side just another red herring to change the subject about. And because "consciousness" is such a subjective subject, I don't think it gains much to argue it. I suppose it could be used to ratchet abortion laws down towards the first trimester by appealing to people's humanity by talking about pain. But I'm concerned that it simply pushes back the ultimate question that needs to be answered and may make people "comfortable" enough that the won't want to listen to other arguments against abortion.
I used to be polite and call them "pro-choice" but I've started calling them "pro-abortion" much of the time. When they've clearly never met an abortion that they can argue against, don't believe in informed consent, parental consent, and have no problem with forced abortions in China, they are well past "choice" and well into advocating abortion as the only choice.
Does not saving one life count?
FYI, be careful that you mean what you think you mean when you say "conception". It is not another word for "fertilization". Indeed, the current medical definition of "conception" seems to be "implantation". This conveniently allows IUDs, Morning After pills, and other birth control pills to be considered "contraceptives" and not abortion-causing drugs. You may mean "conception" to mean "implantation" but I'd strongly urge you to switch to "fertilization" if that's what you actually mean.
My own personal memories extend to my birth, and before, which is why I'm not a particularly big fan of abortion. I've often thought that my last thought in this world will be to recall my first moments in this world.
Sure. Just be careful that you don't sacrifice hundreds of thousands to save thousands (which is the split between second and first trimester abortions). Most people are already wary of second trimester abortions, simply because they look like a baby. Winning that battle is largely a matter of education and informed consent (along with overturning Roe). The bigger target is first trimester abortions.
If you think you can save a few lives with this argument, go for it. Just make sure that you don't back yourself into a pro-choice trap.
Hint: s-a-t-a-n
The consciousness argument is not an exclusive or choice.
The majority of Democrats in the Montana legislature actually voted to inflict pain on unborn babies!
And whether it's human.
There are a lot of sophists out there with arguments denying the humanity of the unborn baby. With them I prefer a negative approach, placing the burden of proof on them, where it belongs. If the "tissue" isn't part of the mother (it has different DNA), then what type of being is it? If they answer anything except for human then the next logical question is, what is it?
Its a good thing this is coming out of Europe, since the leftists over here seem to give so much credence to them. I'm glad to see so much concern over there for this issue. You are right, this really makes one sick when one thinks of Partial Birth Abortions, I don't care HOW "few" of them are performed each year.
The turn around rate of abortion-minded women who see an ultrasound image of their unborn child (at crisis pregnancy centers) is 80-90%. That rate stands in sharp contrast to a 10-20% turn around rate for women who receive counseling but do not see an ultrasound image of their unborn child. It's obvious why the abortion industry doesn't want to expose its "therapy" to the light of day.
Just to put that "negligible" into perspective, conduction velocity is far greater for unmyelinated fibers than myelinated fibers when they are small and cover short distances. Large motor control (skeletal muscle nerve fibers) are the heaviest myelinated fibers while many of the shorter, smaller fibers in the brain remain unmyelinated throughout life.
Myelination is progressive. While the greatest increase in fiber growth and concommitant myelination occurs from the 20th week to the second year of life, myelination starts at about 12 weeks and continues well into adulthood. Axonal growth and connectivity is progressive too. As are any of the structures required for full cognitive function.
The level of cognitive function of a three year old may be negligible compared to a 30 year old, such comparisons are inappropriate in a discussion about absolute function.
There is no doubt that there is cognitive function at the fetal level. Memories of sensory input and cognitive sequella from sensory trauma point to the essential functions of early neural development. Small, in this case, does not mean non-functional.
Those who try to assign humanness to a life at some point post-fertilization are commonly mired in sea of arbitrary thresholds.
The AMA changed the definition for this very reason. In fact, the definition had to be changed so that "the pill" wouldn't be classified as an abortifacient. One property of "The pill" is that it acts to thin the lining of the uterus thus retarding implantation of a fertilized egg.
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