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That's the funny part really. I get called a Hitler worshipper for suggesting we should have left the French to the Nazi's and Stalin, and on this thread I'm made out to be a Francophile.

My only comment is that the French solidier is as brave and capable as the next, it was their leadership that was corrupt, uneducated, and incompetent; same with the Italian Army during WW2. The French are still a better friend who have contributed several great works to Western culture and they did keep out the Muslim Hordes.

France, like Germany, has been a battleground for so long, can you blame them for wanting peace? Where as Britian and the United States have had skirmishes on the edges of empire to no better avail I might add, save an ugly 'win' in the Philipines War over a hundred years ago. (Grenada, I believe is something to be quite proud of, on the otherhand, TY RR.)

Where as Britian and the United States have had skirmishes on the edges of empire to no better avail I might add, save an ugly 'win' in the Philipines War over a hundred years ago. (Grenada, I believe is something to be quite proud of, on the otherhand, TY RR.)

Excuse me: "skirmishes on the edge of empire"? What the bloody hell do you think the Blitz was all about? We got firebombed out of our homes here in London night after night. Paris, on the other hand, surrendered in plenty of time to prevent damage.

What's wrong with the French is very simple - ever since the end of the First World War, they have been vulnerable to a school of thought which says that surrender is preferable to war. This is not a school of thought which has, fortunately, caught on elsewhere with the exceptions of Berkeley and Hampstead. I recommend William Shirer's excellent book, "The Collapse of the Third Republic" for more information.

In any event, this pernicious school of thought informs French policy to this day, calculated, philosophical cowardice. It is contemptible. And it is contemptible to label it otherwise.

Ivan

"France, like Germany, has been a battleground for so long, can you blame them for wanting peace? "

so long??? how about SO LONG AGO.
Yeah, lots of Americans and Brits died on their soil.
55-60 years and 84-88 years ago.

9/11 was 2 years ago...

In the interim, while France and Germany has enjoyed the NATO protection, America has fought wars in teh cold war to secure freedom and defeat and contain Communism, in Korea, Vietnam, and elsewhere.

"My only comment is that the French solidier is as brave and capable as the next, it was their leadership that was corrupt, uneducated, and incompetent;"
Dont cofuse some Jay Leno-type jokes for the SERIOUS critiques;
It is precisely the LEADERSHIP that is the issue.
French leadership *today* is corrupt and venal, and is catering to Muslim and anti-American undercurrents that will divide the Atlantic alliance. They are trying to restrain
American 'hyper-power' for no real good reason except envy and their own desire for grander power. Even Blair is on
to their games and has spoken on the foolishness of seeing Europe as a "counterwieght" to the US instead of an ally.

"The French are still a better friend who have contributed several great works to Western culture and they did keep out the Muslim Hordes. " Stopping muslims in 700AD is hardly relevent to current French culture. Today there are 5 million Algerians in France. French politicians like Chirac today are kowtowing to that seething minority rather than telling the truth to their own people. Result? Antisemitism, the rise of ultra-nationalists like Le Pen (a socialist/nationalist bufoon, hardly a friend to the US).

France is a country that believes too much in government and nationalism. These statists want to impose statism on Europe via the EU, on us via agreements like Kyoto, and on their African 'friends' aka neo-colonial satraps. This is going in the wrong direction. We need freedom worldwide, they offer statism. We need free trade, they offer barriers like rules against GM foods and aid to farmers, govt owned companies, etc.

"I get called a Hitler worshipper for suggesting we should have left the French to the Nazi's ..." And if you defend Stalin or Castro, you'll be called a Commie. Funny how that works, eh?

I will grant that the average foot soldier might have courage, but his leaders will always screw that up. Look at history ... Dien Bien Phu 1948 or 49, General Vo Nyugen Giap surrounded the French Elite paratroops and massacred them because they couldn't fight with determination. Khe Sahn, Tet Offensive of 1968, same General with the same tactics for the NVA, but he ran into American Marines who were not afraid to fight. Very different outcome for him.

WW1 - one of the French generals managed to incite a mutiny among his troops because they were tired of being used for cannon fodder in and around Verdun. And now it is the damnable French leadership (Chirac and that fop Villepan) that have brought this scorn upon themselves by their perfidity. They lend credence to the old question - With friends like them, who needs enemies?