To: u-89
Actually I know a great deal of the evils of communism and how it operated over the years. Gramsci was an Italian not a Soviet. His political theories have had a major impact among the "intellectuals" but art is a different issue. I have read Marcuse have you?
Most of the sixties culture was not based on Marxism but the same kind of idealism and hedonism which had surfaced occasionally in this country since the 1820s. Long before Marx or the Communist manifesto. I read Horowitz when he was a commie and since. And Marx, Lenin, Mao, Hegel, Debray, Stalin, and Trotsky as well.
I do not claim Marxists have not tried to undermine Western life quite the contrary. However, Modern Art has little to do with that attempt and it certainly does not fit the Marxist theory of art. Just to claim something is commie influenced merely because you don't like it is hardly convincing. I have seen nothing by George DonDero about modern art perhaps you could point me to something.
To: justshutupandtakeit
I am not saying all leftists are communists, I used the term loosely but there is and historically was communist ties to the culture war in all its manifestations from film and art to history texts to music. If you do not want to believe that then I am not going to try and convince you as I would be wasting my time and yours. I am not saying that every aspect of this is part of a centrally planned conspiracy. Like a snowball tossed down a mountain side these things gather size and momentum as they progress and a direction of their own. But that does not mean those who tossed the thing didn't understand the ramifications of their action.
Since the Frankfurt school, who Marcuse was a part of, got mentioned let me say that they understood that in America a Godly person would not be persuaded by "reason" that God did not exist and that American's belief in God prevented them from embracing atheistic communism so they pushed sexual deviance because sex is such a strong a primal urge. Religion keeps this in check but once someone gets hooked into something they voluntarily become estranged from God and then become susceptible to the idea of a new society where they will not be judged wrong in their activities. This is only one example of how popular culture and traditional beliefs can be undermined and altered. Of course the Soviets didn't employ these methods in Russia, they already had their revolution. Methods of creating the new man were different where they were in charge from where they were fighting, and that includes art.
Not knowing you or your background I mentioned earlier the Frankfurt school and Horowitz assuming that most conservatives had heard of them. Rep. Dondero I threw in just because he was so obscure and I was feeling a bit smart alecy. In the late 1940's and early '50's he delivered speeches like "Communists maneuver to control art in the US", "Modern art shackled to communism", "Communist conspiracy in art threatens American museums", "Communism under the guise of cultural freedom strangles American art" just to name a few. Not that any of this would prove anything to you if you are not inclined to agree but I am not making up these connections just because I do not like certain aspects of art.
72 posted on
03/10/2003 4:28:55 PM PST by
u-89
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