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To: thoughtomator; sheltonmac
I don't think the author has done any research into the issues at all. He's merely an uninformed person advertising his ignorance.

LOL!! No, the author's opinion is informed. It just doesn't jibe with the RNC mantra. Contrary to popular belief among some conservatives, the Constitution of these United States does not give the Republican party (or any other party for that matter) carte blanche to do whatever the h#ll it pleases. The fact is we are far past uncharted waters when it comes to the Constitution. They're not even bothering to ignore it anymore, they've just decided to live in the false reality it never existed

The fact is that I doubt you'll bother to address the Constitutional issues with evidence. I've noticed from the neocon arm of the party it's much easier to make a blanket statement that someone is uninformed, ill educated, or just plain ignorant without backing it up

Shelton, as usual sir, another article right on target

8 posted on 03/05/2003 10:29:20 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
Billbears, I have great respect for you and your opinions, but I think you should take another look at what GW is doing. The UN has been the de facto New World Order for a long time. The new coalition forming around the US is another New World Order.

The former NWO is Marxist-based, and this falling away from us in this late conflict is conveniently separating the "us" and "them": making things perfectly clear that what is important to the UN is control of markets, people, and places; they'll deal with the devil to aquire power...damn freedom. They view freedom in the context of bread that they can provide for the starving, unpropertied, disarmed "workers" of the world.

The New NWO can now get on with the work of freeing the planet from this velvet communist monster...not by direct confrontation, or by trying to persuade the frightened masses, but rather by simply starting a new club, and inviting other nations to join: not in a shotgun wedding, but in a compact of mutual support when needed; and a respect for individual God-given rights (given short shrift in the UN Charter). The UN can just whither on the vine...when its parisitic governments can no longer subsist on foreign aid foisted from the West.

And as to the perception that Bush is running afoul of Constitutional precedent, I'll give you the benefit of my own doubts; but there can be no illusions that the machinations of the socialists, greengoobers, idiots, and Dems in OUR OWN COUNTRY--given the opportunity--would hobble, nay, cripple this president , to prevent him from taking any great part of the planet out from under the boot of the UN.

I give GW a pass on this one. What have we to lose?

This goes for NATO, too.

Vive Liberte.

10 posted on 03/05/2003 10:56:16 PM PST by dasboot
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To: billbears
Nice try, but I'm a libertarian not a neocon. And I can shoot this article so full of holes it'll have a future as a sponge.

Since you're so eager to have this guy's head handed to him, I might as well indulge you.

1) Now, Bush the Younger is picking up where his father left off—sacrificing U.S. security and sovereignty in the name of "world peace."

As someone who was in the World Trade Center during the first bombing and was a quarter mile away during the second, I see this war as ensuring our security, not sacrificing it. Without swallowing wholesale the chicken-little liberal mantra about how this will be great for Al-Queda, I don't see how a serious argument can be made that this doesn't enhance our security. I support this war precisely because, in a very personal way, I understand how necessary it is for our security.

As far as our soverignity, I think Bush has an excellent record so far - he has pushed the U.N., the only serious threat to our soverignity, to the brink of extinction.

2. ...he is going out of his way to appease the globalists.

If he was appeasing globalists, how do you explain that the war plans are fully underway despite the lunatic howls of the globalists?

3. Out of one side of his mouth he says that our nation is "facing clear evidence of peril" and that we need to act in our nation's best interests. But out of the other side he says that we should "take the resolutions of the U.N. Security Council seriously."

Are you kidding me? How naive does someone need to be to write a statement like this? There's an old saying that goes, "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' while you reach for a rock", which is exactly what's going on here. Watch actions, not words, and there's no doubt - this has been a single track to war with Iraq for months now, any delay is due to military concerns, not political ones.

4. If the Iraqi threat is so great, then why should we worry about a few meaningless resolutions? Does the U.S. have a right to defend itself or doen't it? Is the U.S. a sovereign nation or not? Very few conservatives are speaking out about the dangers of going into Iraq to enforce U.N. policy.

Don't you feel the cognitive dissonance when you read these lines? This has been the U.S. policy long before it was the U.N. policy - they adopted our policy, not vice versa. The resolution talk is just that - talk, while we move men and materiel into position.

5. Congress is just as complicit by refusing to function as a check on executive power.

It was this statement that really tipped me off how uninformed the author is. First of all, we never signed a peace treaty with Iraq after we kicked them out of Kuwait. So we're still at war with them. We've been bombing military targets in Iraq for 12 years straight. Then last fall Congress again put its OK on further military action against Iraq. Congress has been heard, repeatedly, and has lined up solidly behind Bush on this.

But this leads me to another thing, which is really that declarations of War by Congress are a red herring. Congress can declare what it likes, the significance of the state of War has relevance with respect to laws passed with reference to being in a state of War. The President controls the armed forces, not Congress. Congress has one tool to prevent the President from using military force in a way it does not like, and that is to refuse to fund the military. Otherwise it is irrelevant, it's not part of the command structure. Presidents have often used the military without declarations of war, and the historical record is very clear on this - the armed forces are under the command of the executive, not Congress.

 

Okay I can go on and on about this, I'm only halfway done with critiquing this article but I think I'll just come to my point - I'll make it nice and bold so nobody can miss it:

If you're going to base an assertion on the Constitution, make an effort to actually read and understand the Constitution first.

I've got a long record of standing up for the Constitution and what it means, and it pisses me off when some half-baked nitwit waves it in my face without even bothering to read it.

11 posted on 03/05/2003 11:12:20 PM PST by thoughtomator (SHAVE THE RUSHDIE)
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To: billbears
I've noticed from the neocon arm of the party it's much easier to make a blanket statement that someone is uninformed, ill educated, or just plain ignorant without backing it up

You’re right … they’ve learned these lessons from the Leftist Democrats.

18 posted on 03/06/2003 4:07:17 AM PST by bimbo
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To: billbears
"All truth goes through three stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Then it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident."
(Schopenhauer)
35 posted on 03/07/2003 6:34:23 AM PST by B4Ranch
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